Cancer is a word that none of us want to hear…for ourselves or our dogs. But canine cancer is on the rise, so let’s chat about how to deal with a diagnosis and the steps to try and prevent it. ❤️🐾

TRANSCRIPT

At the top of the hour, I am all about punctuality. Welcome dog lovers. My name is Krista Karpowich and I am the host of the Wag Out Loud podcast where we are obsessed with canine health and wellness. And today I'm joined by James Jacobson, and he is the founder and owner of the Dog Podcast Network, and he's also the host of the Dog Cancer Answers Show. Looking forward to having James on the podcast next summer. So stay tuned for that. This is a serious topic. Obviously, today roughly 50% of our dogs will die from cancer, especially those over the age of ten. I am so glad everybody is here today. We need to continue to address this epidemic. So thank you for joining us. And I don't think any one person has all of the answers regarding cancer, but by sharing our stories and educating dog owners about prevention and treatments, I really think that we can reverse these alarming statistics. So James is with us today and he's going to be sharing some great information. And shortly we're going to open it up to all of you so that you can comment, ask questions and of course, share your stories as well. So we're going to shoot for an hour for this room and we want this to be super interactive. So if you could please be a part of the conversation and raise your hand by clicking on the button in the bottom right hand corner, the Raise hand button and you'll be put into the queue and we'll bring you up on stage one at a time. And to accommodate everyone, please stick to questions and comments on this specific topic of canine cancer that we're covering, and for the sake of time, please be mindful and keep your questions as brief as possible. If everybody can please Ping people that are following you that you think will find value. That little plus sign in the right hand corner is how to add people. So James, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us why you started the Dog Cancer Answers show?

Sure. Thank you, Chris. It's great to be here. Well, Dog Cancer Answers started initially years ago as a YouTube channel. Well before I started the Dog Podcast Network, and then it is morphed into one of the shows on Dog Podcast Network. Dog Cancer Answers started as a channel providing veterinarians an opportunity to answer questions for people who are dealing with dog cancer. And as you said, Krista, about one in two dogs in the United States and around the world dies of cancer. Cancer is the number one killer of all dogs outside of shelter euthanasia. And it's a big problem. Some breeds like golden retrievers and boxers, it's even higher. It's more grim. It's like 75% or one third of all dogs die 50% over the age ten. And then certain breeds like old and boxers at 75%. So it's a big thing. And I had been a dog lover for many, many years, and I was unaware of that fact until I guess around 2007, I wrote a book called how to Meditate With Your Dog and had this big following with a video that we did to promote that. And then people got to know me a little bit. And my dog, whose name is Maui. And when Maui died, people are sending me letters. I mean physical letters to my house, over a thousand letters, and they were expressing their condolences for Maui's. Passing the next paragraph would be when my dog died, when my dog died. And I'd be hearing about all these dogs who had died. And they were saying that their dogs pretty much all died of cancer. And that's when I went to my veterinarian, who then became my business partner, Doctor Demian Dressler, who is a vet here in Maui. And I said, how big is this cancer thing? And he said, Well, it's kind of big. They don't really talk about it much because events feel rather impotent about it. There's not a lot they can do other than oncologists. And that's just chemotherapy. And that conversation basically was the Genesis for the book that he wrote. And then later on, we added a veterinary oncologist to call the Dog Cancer Survival Guide and the Dog Cancer Survival Guide, I'm happy to say, is the best selling animal health book in the English language. It's been around for years. It's actually getting a refresh right now, but it's just like the Bible of dog cancer. And so a long answer to your question, Krista, but dog cancer answers was a way for Dr. Dressler and Dr. Ettinger, who's the vet oncologist to answer questions about dog cancer. And then that evolved into the podcast that we now have on both video and audio.

So cool. Well, thank you for all of your work, James. That's amazing. And I'm just so glad that you are bringing people together on this topic, and we need to reverse these very grim numbers. And I know you are super close to this topic because both of your dogs have experienced a cancer diagnosis. Can you share your journey with your own personal dogs?

Sure. I'm a big fan of multis. And while Maui did not die of cancer, the more recent dogs I have have both been diagnosed with, Kanga, who is still with us, had a kind of rare I never had her fixed the malts, had a rare uterine type of cancer that was very rare and grew rather quickly and was luckily with surgery, which is often and we'll get into this. I'm sure surgery is often the best thing that you can do if it's possible. Luckily, I had a really good surgeon in the form of Dr. Dressler, who spent hours doing a very precise surgery on a very small multi to remove that tumor. And then it was biopsied. And it turns out that the type of cancer that she has is either slowgrowing or may not metastasize. And so she has been on a dog cancer regimen of dog cancer diet, dog cancer supplements for years now. I think it was three or four years at this point that surgery and she was doing really well. And then my other dog, Roo, who went to Doggy Heaven several weeks ago during the pandemic, develop an oral melanoma, which is really a very difficult thing to treat without doing well. It's a very difficult thing to treat. So those are the two types of cancers that I've had experience with, but those are not the most common types of cancer.

I am so sorry about your loss, James. That's so hard.

It is. But it's one of the things that we do on dog cancer answers. I tell people this is the one show on our podcast network. I'm sorry you have to listen to because people who listen to dog cancer answers are probably dealing currently with a dog who has a cancer diagnosis, and that's how we built an audience over the errors. And what's actually interesting is when people subscribe, not every show is going to be applicable to them, but they tend to subscribe and then keep that in the playlist because some episodes are more relevant and that's kind of cool. I want to check on that one on diet or supplements, whereas if you have a specific type of cancer, that's not terribly interesting, but we try to do general as well as specific shows.

Right. And I know on my show that I've had so many amazing experts in the industry, and because this canine cancer is so prevalent, there are so many different ways to talk about it. And I just love learning about integrative approaches and treatments and how holistic medicine can even complement contemporary Western medicine. Because do you I've heard this with people as well as dogs, that it's the invasive treatments of chemo and radiation that actually end up killing us, that our organs are actually destroyed and our bodies just shut down. So to your point, you had the option of surgery, which is great. But there are so many other ways of going about cancer that the science is just blowing my mind. So what are you hearing from the veterinarians that you've had on the show?

Well, our approach from the beginning, and when I say or so much of this is informed by Dr. Dressler Doctor anger, because I'm the communicator, if you will. And we have actually a team here at Talk Podcast Network. But I'm the communicator. So I'm not a veterinarian, as if anyone was wondering. But so much of what veterinarians are doing these days is more in the sphere of what we call full spectrum care. So that is pulling the best from Western medicine and the best from allopathic medicine. It's looking at the dog from all perspectives and also looking at you as your dog's primary caregiver, because that is such an important component of this. In fact, we're doing a show that is coming out soon on dog cancer answers about are you a type A or type B or type C personality? And depending upon what type of personality you as a dog lover is, it will greatly impact what type of treatment you decide to do with your dog. So the full spectrum approach involves things like, well, yeah, it may certainly involve surgery if it's possible. It certainly involves understanding the traditional is considered best practice in medicine, which is best practices, which are not always best practices but standard of care, like the chemotherapy protocols, you should know them. You should also understand the expected life expectancy of a dog based on the staging of the tumor. And so understanding where chemotherapy may fit in or radiation certain cancers. I would not resist using chemotherapy. Others I'd be a little much more apprehensive about. But then there are so many things like supplements. Then there are a plethora of supplements on the market. Then there are things like body mind, medicine, the concept of prayer and energy and belief has been scientifically shown to make a difference. And so there are all these things that go from the real hard science to some of the more ephemeral components, but they have been effective. And that's sort of what our approach is that dog cancer answers is to present them, to present everything that makes sense. And then to also and we feel that we have an obligation to this, to vet out a lot of the stuff that is really kind of iffy and wow. There are some things out there. People like to go to Dr. Google, but we feel that we have a responsibility to vet that with real veterinarians. So we get our stuff with veterinarians to make sure that we are providing our listeners and viewers as medically accurate.

That's important. Definitely. Well, I've heard some people say that we are all born with cancer cells and genetic and environmental factors determine if they quote, unquote, turn on or not. Do you agree with that?

I think that yes. I think that the environment there's a whole host of things that over the years have become clear that there are carcinogens everywhere. So you have a little bit of bacon, there's some carcinogens, you Char your meat a little bit, there's some heterocyclic mean, there's some carcinogens, there's all sorts of carcinogenic things that happen. Its sort of the effect of living in a world that we live in. Today. You go out on the street and there's an exhaust from the bus or there's chemicals on the lawn or all sorts of things that affect both dogs and people. So, yeah, there is that. But then what is the turning point that turns that little carcinogen into cancer into something that becomes serious and metastasizes and grows? And that's how that can be impacted by diet and lifestyle and all those things and the amount of carcinogens that you're exposed to.

You know, I totally agree. And I guess the good news about this topic is that we can help prevent cancer in our dogs. We can do that. We have that power. And because of our environment, as you mentioned, it's just so toxic. And a lot of the reasons that our dogs are getting more cancer are things like vaccines. And I can totally get into that. And why vaccines over vaccination is not smart. We all know that diet is probably the most controllable influence that we have on their health. Trying to find a diet that is raw and or fresh food, as opposed to Kibble is going to give you a better chance of having a dog that does not get cancer. And again, I can unpack that for days. Why Kibble is not healthy for dogs and is not a species appropriate on the fly in tic medications, all the chemicals in there and the grooming products. And what I say, James, every time is nothing in the pet industry is regulated. And I think that's one of the main contributors to these cancer rates because our food is not regulated, the CBD products, the materials used in making dog toys or dog beds, the grooming products that I mentioned, supplements treat, nothing is regulated. So my show is all about being the best advocate for your dogs health and wellness. So we have to be the advocate for our dogs so that we lessen the chance of them getting cancer. So again, everybody, this is interactive. We want to hear your stories and thoughts and comments. And while we have James here, please ask questions. So just raise your hand and we will bring you up on the stage. We'd love to hear from you. Okay. So, James, with all of these veterinarians that you have on your show, what is on the forefront, what is ground breaking medicine? What's happening?

Wow. Now that is a that's a tough one. I want to go back to a point that you just made about preventing a dog from getting cancer. I don't think anyone can do that. I think you can reduce the risks, but I think preventing is not really an option. And that is also helpful when you do get a dog that has a cancer diagnosis. And if you've done everything right and they still get cancer, it's not your fault because there are so many unknowns in terms of what's new. Well, there's just so many unknowns. And then in terms of regulation, there's no, there's just a lot of things that are out there that people are just coming up with it. They don't lack a lot of science in terms of what is new. It depends on which front which approach. If you're talking about chemotherapy agents or if you're talking about surgery and radiation, or if you're talking about supplements or acupuncture or what I can talk about each of those. Which ones would you like to dig in to?

What is the latest and greatest? Because on my show and what I'm learning is more of the integrative or holistic approaches in medicine. If there's anything that you know about that would be different from that, or maybe I'm learning every day. So you're here to teach us.

Okay, so let's talk about some of the traditional chemo agents. And again, I think that chemo gets a bad rap, sometimes gets a bad rap. So here's the deal. And the unspoken thing that most people won't talk about as it relates to chemotherapy and dogs an oncologist. First of all, there are only a few hundred veterinary oncologists in all of North America, including the US and Canada. So if we have 6 million plus dogs in the United States alone being diagnosed with cancer, those few hundred vets are not going to go very far. And of course, it's pretty expensive. It's five to $8,000. If you pursue traditional standard of care, different types of cancer are going to do the certain protocols that make sense if you have a Lymphoma, that kind of like, well, that has a pretty high success rate. And there are other things that don't. The reality is, though, that a veterinary oncologist will almost never prescribe enough chemo agent to really kill the cancer. So when a human being gets cancer, the goal is to just wipe it out and so they can tell the person that, look, you may feel sick, you're going to lose your hair, you're going to feel like it's the end of the world, but you're not going to die from the chemotherapy. And I know there's a discussion about that. And people too, you feel like you're going to die. And the veterinary oncologist would never give that much chemo agent to a dog, because none of us dog lovers would want to see our dogs in that state. So therefore, a lot of veterinary oncologists are doing lower doses of chemotherapy that don't have as profound an impact as they might have if they were using a dose that is equivalent to what a human would get dosed for the size of a dog. Does that make sense? Christa, it does.

Thank you.

Okay. Which is a good thing because none of us wants to see. But that's where there's all these what I call full spectrum approaches, what you call complimentary things. That's where they all kind of fit into this compartment. There are chemotherapy agents that are more they are effectively pills that you can give at home, and they're metronomic in nature, meaning they happen over time. Those and they're still very nasty. And you don't necessarily want to pick up your dog's poop if you're pregnant. And there's some real stuff to be worried about. But it's a little bit more convenient than some of the other protocols where you have to bring your dog into the vet. And basically they use an IV chemo agent. But, you know, he is chemo. Talk to your veterinary oncologists. But chances are the person who diagnoses your dog's. Cancer is not an ecologist is your general practice. That and that's where you want to really involve your general practice. That as part of the team, you use the word advocate. And I think that's so important. You want to be your dog's primary health care advocate. And that means relying on a variety of different resources. You want to rely on the general practice that you want to rely on, maybe a holistic that who's just into Chinese herbs or acupuncture. You want to rely on an oncologist if you want to go that route because they're the ones who should be doing the chemotherapy you want to pull from the best different sources you can. But in terms of supplements, which is a big thing that you asked about. There are so many new ones out there, and some are a little stale. And then there are some things that have proven safety and efficacy because they've been used for years. Yes, we can get into CBD. You tell me where we want to go with us.

Yea. Well, we have Billy up on the stage. Hi, Billy. You have something to share?

Hey, guys. Nice to be here. I'm so glad I could make it. My session finished early, so I popped in a Billy. Hey. Hey. Yeah. James, I caught when you said what I loved, not your fault. And I just wanted to go back to that when you were talking about the dog owners doing everything right, and they did all the proper health and feeding best as they thought, of course, education, and they probably learn as they went along. But during puppyhood, and as you know, I don't work with puppies, but a lot of my clients did everything perfectly right as best they could in puppyhood, and then things still change and things don't go perfectly. Are there any studies with what you do on whether the dogs came from, say, the street or an urban environment versus country environment? Or are there any studies done that would say effect where you could make those choices during puppy hood? That would make a difference.

I'm not aware of studies that connect whether it was a dog was raised on a farm or in the city. I'm not aware of any of those in terms of breeds. It obviously matters because obviously, cancer is prevalent in certain breeds that we were saying earlier. Goldens have a chance to die cancer. A lot of that has to do with the breeding decisions. So therefore, a mixed breed is sometimes less likely to get cancer. But I'm not aware of farm versus city raising and what that means.

That's interesting. Yeah. Thanks so much.

This is great.

Super.

Thanks, Billy. Billy was on a recent show on Doug podcast network. That's good to see you in club House. I'm new to this medium.

Billy is awesome. Anybody else have anything to share or comment or ask questions? As far as studies, I know of a study that I think it was Scottish Terriers and even fed a Kibble diet. Once you added green leafy vegetables three times a week on top of the Kibble, it decreased certain cancers, I believe by.

So I can tell you what I Cook for my dogs. A dog I like to Cook. So this is the thing when you were talking about Kibble, I think what we need to also one of the things that we have learned over the years is we don't really want to shame anyone, and sometimes people just don't have the financial wherewithal or the time to Cook for their dogs to get the most expensive dog food. While food is pivotally important, I would agree with you. There's probably there's nothing more important than what you feed your dog. It's not the end all and be all that said, I love to Cook. And Luckily I work from home and I Cook for my dogs. So I Cook fresh organic vegetables, fresh grass fed meat or organic chicken and obviously in small quantities because for two reasons, one because my dog likes when it's fresh made. And Secondly, there's a small dog. So she's not going to eat a lot. And she likes variety so often times it mirrors or has many of the same ingredients that I put in my food that I Cook for my wife and myself. And Kanga eats a lot of what we eat, but hers is not cooked with salt or fat. And then it's also pureed in the food processor. And then on top of that, we add in a dog supplement. Actually, the Dr Dressler formulated that I make called Ever Pup, and that is something that we sprinkle on. All the dogs have always gotten. That because it rounds out because when you do home cooking, you're possibly at risk for not having all the vitamins and minerals that aren't necessary, which is one of the things that Purina and all these dog food companies do is they make sure that they do have all the stuff. So that's why I think it's good to supplement with a good multi and Ever pup does more than just that to make sure that you have vitamins and minerals and prebiotics and probiotics and all the things that will be good. But then my dog likes this kind of food. Sometimes if it's really if it's really busy and I can't Cook for Tanga, I use a really premium dehydrated food, which we hydrate and throw in a little bit of protein.

Wow, that's one lucky dog.

She is lucky. And sometimes especially when U died when we went away, she can get lost her appetite. Dogs pick up on our stress, and so she needed to be coaxed into eating. And that would mean Molly, my wife or I would be sitting on the floor with a bowl of food trying to hand feed. And if that wasn't working, we would show it like you do with a kid. Like, look, really eat it. And so we eat a lot of dog food. But our dog food really pretty tasty.

Oh, that's good to know. I haven't tried it.

Yeah, well, you got to come over. Christ and Kanga will share some here for food with you. That's the thing we talk about. Supplements like every pup is in all is a human grade supplement. We talk about the supplement industry. There are some most supplements are pet oriented, which don't really have the same standards as human oriented, and the ingredients are different. The manufacturing process is different. So if you can find supplements that are human standards, which are FDA regulated and certified good manufacturing principles, those are important things to do, as opposed to just something that has a lot of hype on it. I don't know. Amazon right.

Well, James, I'm glad you said that there's no shaming, and I don't want people to think that if you feed Kibble, you're an awful person because I was that person before. I lived this life of research and information, and I agree with you, and people can feed Kibble, but I really believe that they can add to the Kibble to make it that much more nutritious. And I've done shows about just adding a can of sardines in water or scrambled or blueberries or what have you it's so easy.

Yeah. It's those things not so hard up the tin of sardines since they're so good for you and for the dog.

Exactly. Well, you mentioned CBD, and I know that I've had Angela Adeline on the show that blew my mind about the studies and research and science behind CBD and THC used in the treatment of cancer, which was so cool. Is there anything else that you know about as far as the use of CBD and THC?

I know way too much about CBD and THC for dogs with cancer. So I will definitely refer or suggest that people who are interested in that check out the episode of Dog Cancer Answers with Dr. Trina Has, and we have another one. I can't remember. But there are some vets who have really focused and done a lot of clinical research on the use of CBD and THC. And what is fascinating about about Doctor Trina as she is a veterinary oncologist. Remember, I said there are only two or 300 of them. She is one of them. She's in a very small group of people, but she is actually she uses chemotherapy and CBD and THC. So it's really, really interesting. And I've learned a lot about it. One of the things that I think is most striking is that one of the things that I've learned this most striking is that your veterinarian may very well be reluctant to recommend, endorse or in any way comment on CBD, because in the United States, even if you're in a state where it's legal, I don't know California, it is illegal on a federal level to be doing that. So it's a real vests are very concerned about losing their license because it is a control substance, which is of course administered overseen by the Drug Enforcement Agency, the DEA. And those are the people who control all the narcotics that a veterinarian definitely has to have access to. So there are many veterinarians who are concerned about this, and there definitely is some interest in changing the laws and making it more available for veterinarians to either prescribe or recommend or even talk about. So there are not that many really smart veterinarians who are talking about CBD and THC. And if you decide to go that route, I would make sure that when you have a dog with cancer, I would make sure that you get all the information from a veterinarian and not rely again and talk to Google.

I.

Agree. I wanted to bring that up because I'm just so encouraged with the findings and it just makes sense. And I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg as far as CBD and THC being used not only to treat cancer, but obviously we know it helps treat seizures and other things, which is just so exciting.

It's pretty cool. The thing is, there's so much promise and I love it. The problem is so many of the brands, they're not standardized. So when you get something ill or something, you know how many milligrams you really don't know because they just don't have that. And therefore the possibility of under dosing or overdosing your dog is real and could have some not so great side effects. So make sure that you're getting a really good brand and talk to a veterinarian. And so much of what we talk about on dog cancer answers is you are going to be the one making the decision, but you need really good, solid vetted information, and we provide that through the show and through our website and through the book and through other stuff that we do. But at the end of the day, it's really a decision that you need to have with your veterinarian who can see and actually look at your dog and examine your dog.

Absolutely. So what are your thoughts on second opinions? So you get a cancer diagnosis? Did you get second opinions?

So I'm kind of lucky I have my vet dog cancer vet, but I think 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions are really important. Again, this becomes an economic thing sometimes because no one gives you fruit. Where are anyone who's going to give you free medical advice?

Right?

It is a business and they want to be paid for their time. And then they also can make money on tests and all sorts of things. So I can give you some tips for things to watch out for, but make sure that you do not rely on just one veterinarian's opinion. And again, you want to be the primary health advocate for your dog. If you can assemble a whole cadre of advisors, nutritionists, veterinarians, people who help with body mind or people to take care of your own stress levels. Those are so critical to the overall long term outcome that you're going to have with a dog cancer diagnosis. One of the things that Dr. Dressler says is that dogs don't have an expiration date. It's not like when you get a cancer diagnosis. Oh, my God, my dog has this many months to live because they will often vets will give a guestimate, and it is literally that it is usually just an average of dogs that traditionally have this type of cancer that are in this age. It's the medium so of those will live. Just an average will live to that will live that many days, months, years and 50% will live less, and 50% will be more. So you could have an outlier and they may say, oh, it's nine months. You could have a dog that lives four or five years, which time? Seven is pretty significant if you equate this to human years only because no one really knows and that's where you have to to decide. I'm going to be in charge of this. I am really going to look at this as a long term thing. And cancer can be a thing you live with, like any other, like many other diseases. It's not a death sentence.

I'm glad you said that. I know when Dr. Marty Goldstein was on the show on this topic, he said cancer doesn't have to be a bad word. It's how you approach it. And so many people are so wrapped up and obsessed with cancer that they're not living in the moment with their dog.

Such. I love Marty. Marty. Marty is awesome, and I think he burned the book, the Dog Cancer Survival Guide, and he likes this approach because he really loves it. He sees it because he is all that a full fledged holistic that. But he has an appreciation for less holistic or allopathic lly trained bets and they work hand in hand. But he really, I think is right on right on target with that has such awesome advice.

Yes.

And what are your thoughts on feeding a ketogenic or low to no carb diet with a dog that has cancer?

Very good. The dog cancer diet, which is something else that that if you get a dog cancer diet. Com, you get Dr. Dressler book a booklet for free on that, and it focuses on the idea that cancer is fed by carbohydrates. Cancer eats sugars. So you want to reduce the amount of carbohydrates. However, that has been popularized and see if the book first came out in 2007. Over the years, people have gone a little bit crazy in this whole focus on Keto Genesis and dog cancer oftentimes for, I think, for commercial reasons. But having a low carb diet is good, but there are like vegetables are really an important part of things and their carbohydrates and vegetables sometimes. Keto Genesis Dr. Dressler we have several episodes on dog cancer answers that address this very controversial topic because it has been often espoused by people who are not surprised, surprised veterinarians, but have some other ulterior motives to talk about this. But from all the research and study that I've done and my team has done, there are a bunch of people who work on this show who work to make this stuff really solid. We have a full time theme dedicated, and what we have all come to believe is that it is not an endall and Beall for dog cancer. So you want to have certain cards, but in general, don't feed cancer with shorter, which is, of course, private hydrants.

I'm glad you said that, because I agree with you that there are good carbs and bad carbs. And of course, the antioxidants and vegetables are amazing. The phytonutrients are only going to help your dog with cancer.

You and cruciferous vegetables. And that's why the recipe in the dog cancer diet is kind of key. Now. It's a pain, but I know this goes back to the shaming thing because people look at it and go, I can't do all that for my dog. Well, you don't have to do all of it. It's good if you do. But it includes things like supplementing with Krill oil. There are certain things that you put into the food. And this modified dog cancer diet is in many ways what I was describing as Kangas diet. We do the supplements mixed in with high protein, a lot of vegetables, very low carb, because cancers do feast on sugar. It's the way that cancer is one of the ways that cancer is proliferate. There are others. But sugar is important.

Yes, thanks for that. And everybody, we have a little less than 20 minutes and we really wanted to hear from all you guys. I see people that I know in the audience. Great. Carrie has something to say. I'm going to bring her up.

Hi.

Carrie.

Hi, Krista.

How are you doing? I'm good.

How are you? Thanks for being here.

It's been a while since I've had a chance to be in club house and actually absorb information. And I'm sorry if this part of this. I wanted to talk about thoughts regarding sequencing and dogs because make no secret that I work.

I have two things that I do.

One is my dog products, but the other is working for this company that that uses AI and can go through a human molecular profile and using biomarkers that are known come up with new and novel combination therapies for cancer patients. And when you look at the capability to do this in humans, you would think, well.

You could do this in dogs as well.

But the problem with it in the canine setting is, I guess, really not that many people are sequencing the tumors of their canines. Just curious, James, if you have any color on that, I know that there's a newer company called Pet DX. I actually used to work with a lot of the execs there that just launched and they're doing some liquid bio type tumor sequencing on dogs. And I was just curious to know if you are familiar with anybody else doing that and care.

It's actually a really good question, and it's really fascinating, and it is cutting edge, but it does exist. And to sound repetitive, we did an episode on that sound like there's an app for that. We did a whole episode on it. We spoke with the founder CEO of one of those companies. A lot of them are Silicon Valley. It's really interesting to get a ton of venture capital, and because they're doing it on dogs, because the theory is if it works, some dogs, they can do it on people. So it's really, really interesting. And then sometimes, as you say, Carrie goes from people to dogs. But we have shows on that very subject, and often not every tumor or not. Every dog is qualifies for it, meaning the type of cancer they have is not something that is compatible with this type of technology mechanism. And they will often give you a list of off label meds to use that then have to be created in a composite pharmacy, and they have different effects. But it is a really interesting thing, and it is definitely the future not only of veterinary medicine, but as you say, human medicine. So it's really cool. And we did, I think, one or two episodes of dog cancer answers on that subject. We have not only the CEOs of the companies, but again, towards the idea of trying to really get this. We have our veterinarians and we have a PhD epidemiologist who is our chief scientific officer for our shows. And she kind of goes into the pros and cons, and then we have, I believe, on that same episode, Trina Ha, who's a vet oncologist who uses this technology and loves it. So it's really interesting. Again, you have to be you have to decide what's best, but it's a great tool if it's available to you and you can afford it.

Yeah. Thanks.

And that kind of parallels what's happening with in human medicine. I mean, if you're if you're going to get cancer and you have to take some drugs, it's not going to make you feel right. You really want to make sure it's actually going to have some sort of biological mechanism senior tumor that will react appropriately to that drug, and even just to know which drugs you shouldn't take is also incredibly helpful, because there's pathways in people and animals that, you know, confer resistance or should be not used and knowing that information can really help you in all of your downstream therapy decisions. So I really wanted to get there for dogs. I'm super passionate about it on both sides, of course, because it's just such an awful thing to deal with. I hope we get there faster for our pets.

It is available. It is definitely available. There are a lot of companies again. Do your research and find out. Don't just rely on what the company is saying.

Yes, of course.

Our AI works off of the results from sequencing companies so we can find a good partner there. Then I think we'll be in pretty good business, but I am definitely going to listen to you dog cancer episodes on that.

I think that's awesome. I'll do a two minute thing just talking about just riffing on what you said in terms of the importance of sequencing. My wife, who's a person did a 23 in me and she found out that she had a marker for this thing, which basically showed that she does not assimilate anesthesia. Well, which means it takes her a long time to wait for anesthesia. It is a pretty rare condition, but she wouldn't have known unless she had done the 23 and me, and now she wears a medevac or me. What do you call those bracelets? Medical alert bracelet in case she's ever in an accident and he goes to the hospital and then they give her anesthesia is really important for the anesthesiologist to know about that. And that wouldn't have happened unless she had taken that $100, $200.23 and me to find out all that stuff. We're just in the infancy of this stuff, but it's pretty pretty cool.

Yeah, absolutely.

I used to work for Alumina that makes like 95% of the sequencers out there. We are at the beginning. I think we're only a certain percentage of the way through the potential for this.

Like a really low.

I think it's under 10% of the last time I heard somebody comment on it. There's so much more to come and so much more we can do with this. And all of the great companies out there starting to open their eyes up and utilize this for pets. I mean, the thing is, though, the one problem in paralleling the people with the animals, there's a lot fewer chemo drugs that they have. And I'm excited to hear that more drug companies and tech companies are looking at the the dog segment as well. I think all of the rush of people to getting pets during the pandemic will just continue to push the need for more research and looking into more things for beloved pets because they are so important in our lives.

So I'm excited about I totally agree with you.

Thank you.

Well, thank you.

Thanks.

I'll check it out. I'm going to pop back to the audience. Thank you.

So much.

Thank you, James, as we are wrapping up here and everybody and anybody in the audience, please, this is your chance to share. So just raise your hand. Everybody's talking now about gut health, about the microbiome and that over of our immune system is located in the gut. Do you know of any studies going on as far as gut health and cancer?

Yes, but I can't take them off the top of my head. My Google alerts are pretty deep. And if you don't know about scholar. Google. Com, that is a really good way of learning stuff. So if you're interested in scholarly research, real stuff versus stuff that is watered down and you have the patience to read it, there's a lot of ifs there, I recommend people check out scholar. Google. Com. But there is research that mirrors what's happening with humans, which is looking at the dog biome and the connection between that and cancer. And yeah, you're so right in the biome is such an incredibly important thing. And that's where having prebiotics and probiotics is so important. And if you ever need to give your dog an antibiotic, because for any reason, make sure that you do something to help restore that good flora.

Very good point. What would you like to leave us with, James? As far as this big, scary word of cancer and the statistics are only getting worse, what do you think we need to be mindful of?

Well, information and we live in a world now that is a lot of people have put a lot of for lack of a better word, false information out for a variety of reasons. But there are some really vetted people who have been doing this for a while and are true researchers. And I wanted to shout out to one of the people who's in the audience here, Renee, from Tripods. They are an amazing organization that helps people who have a dog, that it becomes a tripod, they lose a leg, usually because of osteosarcoma, but it can be other reasons. And there's a tremendous support community that they have. There are some amazing groups that have been around for years and with really solid information. And so I wanted to recommend things like that. Of course, Dog Cancer answers. Com, which is our podcast and the Book of Dog Cancer Survival Guide. You have to be your dog's primary health care advocate. And so you need to arm yourself with good, solid information. Stay away from a lot of the stuff that seems a little too good to be true. There is someone out there on the Internet promoting a protocol that cures cures cancer based on a Benadryl and Tagamet and guess why. It doesn't work. And we've been ignoring it for ever and ever. And finally we've decided to do an episode which is going to be out soon. That really kind of talks about it. Now. The thing is, there's always a little grain of truth to something. So there is a particular type of cancer that benefits from taking Benadryl and Tagamet, but really has to do with the antihistamines. And this isn't cure anything. It just makes the dog more comfortable. Surprise, surprise. But there's so much really bad information out there, and so make sure you're getting it from a trustworthy source. And that's what we work so hard to do and put together, which is really part of our mission. The answer is not a death sentence. There's lots you can do, and you just need to get the information that helps.

Well, thank you for vetting the people and the information. And yes, kudos to Renee and what she and her organization does. Hi, Renee of this year.

Hi there. Jim and I are in here, and we're just, like, we're blushing. Thank you so much for the nice things you said.

So true. You guys are amazing.

Well, thank you. But you know what a lot of what we do points back to your work, James and Dr. Dressler, and I just I don't think a day goes by. We don't tell somebody about the dog cancer survival guide because it is the foundation for everything that people should know if they get a cancer diagnosis. And it was the first time that I really learned that there is no one way to fight cancer and there is no right way. And there's no wrong way. There's only the way that makes you and your pet and your wallet happy, and that's different for everybody. So what I really love about your work is that you present all different sides of dealing with cancer, from the integrative to the traditional chemo to everything. And I love that. It's just very balanced, and we really appreciate what you do. So I just wanted to say thank you.

Mutual admiration society. It's not fun work. It's like I said, this is a podcast that we're sorry you have to listen to, and it can get depressing, and we lose customer service agents on our team because I can't hear more stories. But it feels so worthwhile when we hear stories from people around the world who say that this made the difference in everything about how my dog's quality of life, because that's what it comes down to one. Don't you think it's about quality of life?

Absolutely. And gyms over here shaking his head. Yes, that it's not about how much time you're going to get, how much time they tell you you're going to get. It's about what you do with whatever time you have left. And if you're totally stressing out over what you're doing for your dog, that's a really good medicine for them. You just make the most of it. Start with a good foundation like your work and what you do over a dog cancer survival and get multiple opinions, because there is no one way to do this.

Sure.

Thank you.

Thank you. Renee for being here. We appreciate you. And we also have Dr. Marlene Siegel with us today. Hi, Dr. Siegel.

Hey, everybody. Thank you for the little buzz in. I appreciate that. I love everything that you guys have said you were very spot on. And the one thing, if I may add, is that in our quest to name it and blame it and then come up with a fix, we really have forgotten our basics, which is how do we support the body's innate biological intelligence? And that includes what are the things that we are doing in our lifestyle that are literally contributing to the problem? So as much as we want to have the right chemo, the right CBD, the combination, the right genetic testing, we still have to go back to the very basics, which is what caused the cancer to happen to begin with. So when we can stop polluting the body by taking responsibility and looking at the diet that we're feeding, the type of water that we're using, the chemicals that we're using in the household, the amount of EMF that our animals are exposed to, and, of course, the ants in the the parents brains, which are those automatic negative thoughts. We need to start addressing that. And then, of course, looking at the deficiency of essential nutrients or the toxicity of things that are creating metabolic distress. Ors these are so simple to address that it's almost in my opinion, it is almost malpractice to not address the basics of the biology. What is it that we're either too much of or that we're missing, that we can easily test for easily supplement? And then, of course, my wheelhouse is detoxification. So how can we support the organs of elimination so that they can do their job? And when you do all of that, which is just your lifestyle. This is not going out there and spending tons of money on weird things. It's really living that sustainable healthier lifestyle, but making choices on what you purchase and what you put on the skin and what you're breeding and the mitochondrial support comes naturally when you start setting up the foundation. So I just wanted to remind everybody that as we're searching for that magic bullet, if we can just start cleaning up our lifestyles and our thoughts and start living a more sustainable lifestyle that literally takes care of 60% of the problems that I deal with with my patients. And we are primarily a cancer clinic. But my patients have phenomenal quality of life. Like everybody said that's your number one goal, longevity is fantastic if you can get it. Some of our patients are cured of cancer within five to 16 weeks, and others live with their cancer. Like James said, it's not always about getting rid of something, but about learning how to cope with it. And my last comment is that I we also need to look at the things that we create in our lives as a blessing. So when your animal has cancer, a lot of pet parents come in to me and they start making those changes within the lifestyle to support the pet. But it also helps them because almost everybody ends up coming back and saying, oh, well, I have this illness and that illness the parents are suffering from a lot of diseases or somebody in the household is as well. So when we are able to clean up the pet's environment, it cleans up our environment, cleans up Mother Earth because you'll have a lot less toxins going into Mother Earth as well. And it just becomes a real positive movement. The energy of everything improves. So with that happy note, there's so much that we can do, we just have to learn how to make better choices. Thank you for letting me speak.

Thank you, Dr. Siegel. I can't agree more. And I'm excited because Dr. Segal is going to be talking about that exact topic, detoxing your dog and it's going to be right here on the Wag Out Loud Room on Monday, October 11 at the same time. So you guys can Mark that on your calendars. We'd love to have you here. So thank you, Dr. Siegel, and we are going to wrap up. So, James, where can everyone learn more about you? The Dog Podcast Network and your show, Dog Cancer Answers well, different websites.

Dog Cancer Answers. Com has all the website has the show. You can either listen to it as an audio and your favorite podcast player, or there's a whole YouTube channel that's actually really good. And as I said, I started before the podcast did, and then we have a support group on Facebook. It's free. You can go to it. Dog Cancer Support. Com. The book is Dog Cancer Book. Com. And then the whole network. The thing that brought us all together, Christ is Dog Podcast Network, dot. Com. And that's where we have other shows that I want people to listen to all the time. And it's not just for dogs with cancer. Our flagship show is called Dog Edition. It is the world's first podcast designed to listen to while you walk. Your dog is 20 to 30 minutes long. It sounds like All Things Considered from National Public Radio, with a bunch of different segments on each episode. And it's really good to listen to while you walk your dog.

All the things you're doing. James, when do you sleep?

But I have a great team. I have a great team of people that so important.

Thank you for all you do. Thanks for being here today. And thanks to all of you for wanting to do better and be a better advocate for your dog. So this room is hosted by the Wag Out Loud Club. So if you're not a member yet, just tap on the small green House icon on the top left of your screen and join and follow and check out all of our upcoming scheduled rooms and topics. Like I mentioned, Dr. Marlene Siegel is going to be on October 11. So check that out how to detox your dog. And if you want to be the best advocate for your dog's health and wellness, of course, you're welcome to check out all of our podcast episodes on your favorite podcast player or directly on wag. Outloud. Com. Thank you, James. Thank you to all the other dog lovers have a tailwagging day.

Bye bye.

At the top of the hour, I am all about punctuality. Welcome dog lovers. My name is Christa Carp, which and I am the host of the Wag Out Loud podcast where we are obsessed with canine health and wellness. And today I'm joined by James Jacobson, and he is the founder and owner of the Dog Podcast Network, and he's also the host of the Dog Cancer Answers Show. Looking forward to having James on the podcast next summer. So stay tuned for that. This is a serious topic. Obviously, today roughly 50% of our dogs will die from cancer, especially those over the age of ten. I am so glad everybody is here today. We need to continue to address this epidemic. So thank you for joining us. And I don't think any one person has all of the answers regarding cancer, but by sharing our stories and educating dog owners about prevention and treatments, I really think that we can reverse these alarming statistics. So James is with us today and he's going to be sharing some great information. And shortly we're going to open it up to all of you so that you can comment, ask questions and of course, share your stories as well. So we're going to shoot for an hour for this room and we want this to be super interactive. So if you could please be a part of the conversation and raise your hand by clicking on the button in the bottom right hand corner, the Raise hand button and you'll be put into the queue and we'll bring you up on stage one at a time. And to accommodate everyone, please stick to questions and comments on this specific topic of canine cancer that we're covering, and for the sake of time, please be mindful and keep your questions as brief as possible. If everybody can please Ping people that are following you that you think will find value. That little plus sign in the right hand corner is how to add people. So, James, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us why you started the Dog Cancer Answers show?

Sure. Thank you, Chris. It's great to be here. Well, Dog Cancer Answers started initially years ago as a YouTube channel. Well before I started the Dog Podcast Network, and then it is morphed into one of the shows on Dog Podcast Network. Dog Cancer Answers started as a channel providing veterinarians an opportunity to answer questions for people who are dealing with dog cancer. And as you said, Krista, about one in two dogs in the United States and around the world dies of cancer. Cancer is the number one killer of all dogs outside of shelter euthanasia. And it's a big problem. Some breeds like golden retrievers and boxers, it's even higher. It's more grim. It's like 75% or one third of one third of all dogs die 50% over the age of ten. And then certain breeds like gold and boxers at 75%. It's a big thing and I had been a dog lover for many, many years, and I was unaware of that fact until I guess around 2007, I wrote a book called how to Meditate With Your Dog and had this big following with a video that we did to promote that. And then people got to know me a little bit. And my dog, whose name is Maui. And when Maui died, people are sending me letters. I mean physical letters to my house, over a thousand letters, and they were expressing their condolences for Maui's. Passing the next paragraph would be when my dog died, when my dog died. And I'd be hearing about all these dogs who had died. And they were saying that their dogs pretty much all died of cancer. And that's when I went to my veterinarian, who then became my business partner, Doctor Demian Dressler, who is a vet here in Maui. And I said, how big is this cancer thing? And he said, Well, it's kind of big. They don't really talk about it much because events feel rather impotent about it. There's not a lot they can do other than oncologists. And that's just chemotherapy. And that conversation basically was the Genesis for the book that he wrote. And then later on, we added a veterinary oncologist to call the Dog Cancer Survival Guide and the Dog Cancer Survival Guide, I'm happy to say, is the best selling animal health book in the English language. It's been around for years. It's actually getting a refresh right now, but it's just like the Bible of dog cancer. And so a long answer to your question, Krista, but dog cancer answers was a way for Dr. Dressler and Dr. Ettinger, who's the vet oncologist to answer questions about dog cancer. And then that evolved into the podcast that we now have on both video and audio.

So cool. Well, thank you for all of your work, James. That's amazing. And I'm just so glad that you are bringing people together on this topic, and we need to reverse these very grim numbers. And I know you are super close to this topic because both of your dogs have experienced a cancer diagnosis. Can you share your journey with your own personal dogs?

Sure. I'm a big fan of multis. And while Maui did not die of cancer, the more recent dogs I have have both been diagnosed with, Kanga, who is still with us, had a kind of rare. I never had her fixed. The malts, had a rare uterine type of cancer that was very rare and grew rather quickly and was luckily with surgery, which is often and we'll get into this. I'm sure surgery is often the best thing that you can do if it's possible. Luckily, I had a really good surgeon in the form of Dr. Dressler, who spent hours doing a very precise surgery on a very small multi to remove that tumor. And then it was biopsied. And it turns out that the type of cancer that she has is either slowgrowing or may not metastasize. And so she has been on a dog cancer regimen of dog cancer diet, dog cancer supplements for years now. I think it was three or four years at this point, that surgery and she was doing really well. And then my other dog, Roo, who went to Doggy Heaven several weeks ago during the pandemic, develop an oral melanoma, which is really a very difficult thing to treat without doing well. It's a very difficult thing to treat. So those are the two types of cancers that I've had experience with, but those are not the most common types of cancer.

I am so sorry about your loss, James. That's so hard.

It is. But it's one of the things that we do on dog cancer answers. I tell people this is the one show on our podcast network. I'm sorry you have to listen to because people who listen to dog cancer answers are probably dealing currently with a dog who has a cancer diagnosis, and that's how we built an audience over the errors. And what's actually interesting is when people subscribe, not every show is going to be applicable to them, but they tend to subscribe and then keep that in the playlist because some episodes are more relevant and that's kind of cool. I want to check on that one on diet or supplements, whereas if you have a specific type of cancer, that's not terribly interesting, but we try to do general as well as specific shows.

Right. And I know on my show that I've had so many amazing experts in the industry, and because this canine cancer is so prevalent, there are so many different ways to talk about it. And I just love learning about integrative approaches and treatments and how holistic medicine can even complement contemporary Western medicine. Because do you I've heard this with people as well as dogs, that it's the invasive treatments of chemo and radiation that actually end up killing us, that our organs are actually destroyed and our bodies just shut down. So to your point, you had the option of surgery, which is great. But there are so many other ways of going about cancer that the science is just blowing my mind. So what are you hearing from the veterinarians that you've had on the show?

Well, our approach from the beginning, and when I say or so much of this is informed by Dr. Dressler Doctor anger, because I'm the communicator, if you will. And we have actually a team here at Talk Podcast Network. But I'm the communicator. So I'm not a veterinarian as if anyone was wondering. But so much of what veterinarians are doing these days is more in the sphere of what we call full spectrum care. So that is pulling the best from Western medicine and the best from allopathic medicine. It's looking at the dog from all perspectives and also looking at you as your dog's primary caregiver, because that is such an important component of this. In fact, we're doing a show that is coming out soon on dog cancer answers about are you a type A or type B or type C personality? And depending upon what type of personality you as a dog lover is, it will greatly impact what type of treatment you decide to do with your dog. So the full spectrum approach involves things like, well, yeah, it may certainly involve surgery if it's possible. It certainly involves understanding the traditional is considered best practice in medicine, which is best practices, which are not always best practices, but standard of care, like the chemotherapy protocols, you should know them. You should also understand the expected life expectancy of a dog based on the staging of the tumor. And so understanding where chemotherapy may fit in or radiation certain cancers. I would not resist using chemotherapy. Others I'd be a little much more apprehensive about. But then there are so many things like supplements. Then there are a plethora of supplements on the market. Then there are things like body mind medicine, which the concept of prayer and energy and belief has been scientifically shown to make a difference. And so there are all these things that go from the real hard science to some of the more ephemeral components, but they have been effective. And that's sort of what our approach is that dog cancer answers is to present them, to present everything that makes sense. And then to also and we feel that we have an obligation to this to vet out a lot of the stuff that is really kind of iffy and wow. There are some things out there. People like to go to Dr. Google, but we feel that we have a responsibility to vet that with real veterinarians. So we get our stuff with veterinarians to make sure that we are providing our listeners and viewers as medically accurate.

That's important. Definitely. Well, I've heard some people say that we are all born with cancer cells and genetic and environmental factors determine if they quote, unquote, turn on or not. Do you agree with that?

I think that yes. I think that the environment there's a whole host of things that over the years have become clear that there are carcinogens everywhere. So you have a little bit of bacon, there's some carcinogens, you Char your meat a little bit, there's some heterocyclic, there's some carcinogens, there's all sorts of carcinogenic things that happen. Its sort of the effect of living in a world that we live in. Today. You go out on the street and there's an exhaust from the bus or there's chemicals on the lawn or all sorts of things that affect both dogs and people. So, yeah, there is that. But then what is the turning point that turns that little carcinogen into cancer into something that becomes serious and metastasizes and grows? And that's how that can be impacted by diet and lifestyle and all those things and the amount of carcinogens that you're exposed to.

You know, I totally agree. And I guess the good news about this topic is that we can help prevent cancer in our dogs. We can do that. We have that power. And because of our environment, as you mentioned, it's just so toxic. And a lot of the reasons that our dogs are getting more cancer are things like vaccines. And I can totally get into that. And why vaccines over vaccination is not smart. We all know that diet is probably the most controllable influence that we have on their health. Trying to find a diet that is raw and or fresh food as opposed to Kibble is going to give you a better chance of having a dog that does not get cancer. And again, I can unpack that for days. Why Kibble is not healthy for dogs and is not a species appropriate on the fly, in tic medications, all the chemicals in there and the grooming products. And what I say, James, every time is nothing in the pet industry is regulated. And I think that's one of the main contributors to these cancer rates because our food is not regulated, the CBD products, the materials used in making dog toys or dog beds, the grooming products that I mentioned, supplements treat nothing is regulated. So my show is all about being the best advocate for your dogs health and wellness. So we have to be the advocate for our dogs so that we lessen the chance of them getting cancer. So again, everybody, this is interactive. We want to hear your stories and thoughts and comments. And while we have James here, please ask questions. So just raise your hand and we will bring you up on the stage. We'd love to hear from you. Okay. So, James, with all of these veterinarians that you have on your show, what is on the forefront, what is ground breaking medicine? What's happening?

Wow. Now that is a that's a tough one. I want to go back to a point that you just made about preventing a dog from getting cancer. I don't think anyone can do that. I think you can reduce the risks, but I think preventing is not really an option. And that is also helpful when you do get a dog that has a cancer diagnosis. And if you've done everything right and they still get cancer, it's not your fault because there are so many unknowns in terms of what's new. Well, there's just so many unknowns. And then in terms of regulation, there's no, there's just a lot of things that are out there that people are just coming up with it. They don't lack a lot of science in terms of what is new. It depends on which front which approach. If you're talking about chemotherapy agents or if you're talking about surgery and radiation, or if you're talking about supplements, or acupuncture or what I can talk about each of those. Which ones would you like to dig in to?

What is the latest and greatest? Because on my show and what I'm learning is more of the integrative or holistic approaches in medicine. If there's anything that you know about that would be different from that, or maybe I'm learning every day. So you're here to teach us.

Okay, so let's talk about some of the traditional chemo agents. And again, I think that chemo gets a bad rap, sometimes gets a bad rap. So here's the deal. And the unspoken thing that most people won't talk about as it relates to chemotherapy and dogs an oncologist. First of all, there are only a few hundred veterinary oncologists in all of North America, including the US and Canada. So if we have 6 million plus dogs in the United States alone being diagnosed with cancer, those few hundred vets are not going to go very far. And of course, it's pretty expensive. It's five to $8,000. If you pursue a traditional standard of care, different types of cancer are going to do the certain protocols that make sense if you have a Lymphoma, that kind of like, well, that has a pretty high success rate. And there are other things that don't. The reality is, though, that a veterinary oncologist will almost never prescribe enough chemo agent to really kill the cancer. So when a human being gets cancer, the goal is to just wipe it out and so they can tell the person that, look, you may feel sick, you're going to lose your hair, you're going to feel like it's the end of the world, but you're not going to die from the chemotherapy. And I know there's a discussion about that. And people too, you feel like you're going to die. And the veterinary oncologist would never give that much chemo agent to a dog, because none of us dog lovers would want to see our dogs in that state. So therefore, a lot of veterinary oncologists are doing lower doses of chemotherapy that don't have as profound an impact as they might have if they were using a dose that is equivalent to what a human would get dosed for the size of a dog. Does that make sense? Christa, it does.

Thank you.

Okay. Which is a good thing because none of us wants to see. But that's where there's all these what I call full spectrum approaches, what you call complimentary things. That's where they all kind of fit into this compartment. There are chemotherapy agents that are more they are effectively pills that you can give at home, and they're metronomic in nature, meaning they happen over time. Those and they're still very nasty. And you don't necessarily want to pick up your dog's poop if you're pregnant. And there's some real stuff to be worried about. But it's a little bit more convenient than some of the other protocols where you have to bring your dog into the vet. And basically they use an IV chemo agent. But, you know, he is chemo. Talk to your veterinary oncologists. But chances are the person who diagnoses your dog's. Cancer is not an ecologist is your general practice. That and that's where you want to really involve your general practice. That as part of the team, you use the word advocate. And I think that's so important. You want to be your dog's primary health care advocate. And that means relying on a variety of different resources. You want to rely on the general practice that you want to rely on, maybe a holistic that who's just into Chinese herbs or acupuncture. You want to rely on an oncologist if you want to go that route because they're the ones who should be doing the chemotherapy, you want to pull from the best different sources you can. But in terms of supplements, which is a big thing that you asked about, there are so many new ones out there, and some are a little stale. And then there are some things that have proven safety and efficacy because they've been used for years. Yes, we can get into CBD. You tell me where we want to go with us.

Well, we have Billy up on the stage. Hi, Billy. You have something to share?

Hey, guys. Nice to be here. I'm so glad I could make it. My session finished early, so I popped in a Billy. Hey. Hey. Yeah. James, I caught when you said what I loved not your fault. And I just wanted to go back to that when you were talking about the dog owners doing everything right, and they did all the proper health and feeding best as they thought, of course, education, and they probably learn as they went along. But during puppyhood, and as you know, I don't work with puppies, but a lot of my clients did everything perfectly right as best they could in puppyhood. And then things still change and things don't go perfectly. Are there any studies with what you do on whether the dogs came from, say, the street or an urban environment versus country environment? Or are there any studies done that would say effect where you could make those choices during puppy hood? That would make a difference.

I'm not aware of studies that connect whether it was a dog was raised on a farm or in the city. I'm not aware of any of those in terms of breeds. It obviously matters because obviously, cancer is prevalent in certain breeds that were saying earlier, Goldens have a chance to die of cancer. A lot of that has to do with the breeding decisions. So therefore, a mixed breed is sometimes less likely to get cancer. But I'm not aware of farm versus city raising and what that means.

That's interesting. Yeah. Thanks so much. This is great. Super.

Thanks, Billy. Billy was on a recent show on Doug podcast network that's good to see you in club House. I'm new to this medium.

Billy is awesome. Anybody else have anything to share or comment or ask questions? As far as studies, I know of a study that I think it was Scottish Terriers and even fed a Kibble diet. Once you added green leafy vegetables three times a week on top of the Kibble, it decreased certain cancers, I believe by.

So I can tell you what I Cook for my dogs. A dog I like to Cook. So this is the thing when you were talking about Kibble, I think what we need to also one of the things that we have learned over the years is we don't really want to shame anyone, and sometimes people just don't have the financial wherewithal or the time to Cook for their dogs to get the most expensive dog food. While food is pivotally important, I would agree with you. There's probably there's nothing more important than what you feed your dog. It's not the end all and be all that said, I love to Cook. And Luckily I work from home and I Cook for my dogs. So I Cook fresh organic vegetables, fresh grass fed meat or organic chicken, and obviously in small quantities because for two reasons, one because my dog likes when it's fresh made. And Secondly, there's a small dog. So she's not going to eat a lot. And she likes variety so often times it mirrors or has many of the same ingredients that I put in my food that I Cook for my wife and myself. And Kanga eats a lot of what we eat, but hers is not cooked with salt or fat. And then it's also pureed in the food processor. And then on top of that, we add in a dog supplement. Actually, the Dr Dressler formulated that I make called Ever Pup, and that is something that we sprinkle on. All the dogs have always gotten. That because it rounds out because when you do home cooking, you're possibly at risk for not having all the vitamins and minerals that aren't necessary, which is one of the things that Purina and all these dog food companies do is they make sure that they do have all the stuff. So that's why I think it's good to supplement with a good multi and Ever pup does more than just that to make sure that you have vitamins and minerals and prebiotics and probiotics and all the things that will be good. But then my dog likes this kind of food. Sometimes if it's really if it's really busy and I can't Cook for Tanga, I use a really premium dehydrated food, which we hydrate and throw in a little bit of protein.

Wow, that's one lucky dog.

She is lucky. And sometimes especially when I died, when we went away, she can get lost her appetite. Dogs pick up on our stress, and so she needed to be coaxed into eating and that would mean Molly, my wife or I would be sitting on the floor with a bowl of food trying to hand feed. And if that wasn't working, we would show it like you do with a kid. Like, look, really eat it. And so we eat a lot of dog food. But our dog food really pretty tasty.

Oh, that's good to know. I haven't tried it.

Yeah, well, you got to come over. Christ and Kanga will share some here for food with you. That's the thing we talk about. Supplements like every pup is in all is a human grade supplement. We talk about the supplement industry. There are some most supplements are pet oriented, which don't really have the same standards as human oriented, and the ingredients are different. The manufacturing process is different. So if you can find supplements that are human standards, which are FDA regulated and certified good manufacturing principles, those are important things to do, as opposed to just something that has a lot of hype on it. I don't know. Amazon.

Right. Well, James, I'm glad you said that there's no shaming, and I don't want people to think that if you feed Kibble, you're an awful person because I was that person before. I lived this life of research and information, and I agree with you and people can feed Kibble, but I really believe that they can add to the Kibble to make it that much more nutritious. And I've done shows about just adding a can of sardines in water or scrambled or blueberries or what have you it's so easy.

Yeah. It's those things not so hard up the tin of sardines since they're so good for you and for the dog.

Exactly. Well, you mentioned CBD, and I know that I've had Angela Adeline on the show that blew my mind about the studies and research and science behind CBD and THC used in the treatment of cancer, which was so cool. Is there anything else that you know about as far as the use of CBD and THC?

I know way too much about CBD and THC for dogs with cancer. So I will definitely refer or suggest that people who are interested in that check out the episode of Dog Cancer Answers with Dr. Trina Has, and we have another one. I can't remember. But there are some vets who have really focused and done a lot of clinical research on the use of CBD and THC. And what is fascinating about about Dr. Trina as she is a veterinary oncologist remember, I said there were only two or 300 of them. She is one of them. She's in a very small group of people, but she is actually she uses chemotherapy and CBD and THC. So it's really, really interesting. And I've learned a lot about it. One of the things that I think is most striking is that one of the things that I've learned this most striking is that your veterinarian may very well be reluctant to recommend, endorse or in any way comment on CBD, because in the United States, even if you're in a state where it's legal, I don't know California, it is illegal on a federal level to be doing that. So it's a real vests are very concerned about losing their license because it is a control substance, which is, of course administered overseen by the Drug Enforcement Agency, the DEA. And those are the people who control all the narcotics that a veterinarian definitely has to have access to. So there are many veterinarians who are concerned about this, and there definitely is some interest in changing the laws and making it more available for veterinarians to either prescribe or recommend or even talk about. So there are not that many really smart veterinarians who are talking about CBD and THC. And if you decide to go that route, I would make sure that when you have a dog with cancer, I would make sure that you get all the information from a veterinarian and not rely again, talk to Google.

I.

Agree. I wanted to bring that up because I'm just so encouraged with the findings and it just makes sense. And I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg as far as CBD and THC being used not only to treat cancer, but obviously we know it helps treat seizures and other things, which is just so exciting.

It's pretty cool. The thing is, there's so much promise and I love it. The problem is so many of the brands, they're not standardized. So when you get something ill or something, you know how many milligrams you really don't know because they just don't have that. And therefore the possibility of under dosing or overdosing your dog is real and could have some not so great side effects. So make sure that you're getting a really good brand and talk to a veterinarian. And so much of what we talk about on dog cancer answers is you are going to be the one making the decision, but you need really good, solid vetted information. And we provide that through the show and through our website and through the book and through other stuff that we do. But at the end of the day, it's really a decision that you need to have with your veterinarian who can see and actually look at your dog and examine your dog.

Absolutely. So what are your thoughts on second opinions? So you get a cancer diagnosis? Did you get second opinions?

So I'm kind of lucky I have my dog cancer vet, but I think 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions are really important. Again, this becomes an economic thing sometimes because no one gives you fruit. Where are anyone who's going to give you free medical advice?

Right?

It is a business and they want to be paid for their time. And then they also can make money on tests and all sorts of things. So I can give you some tips for things to watch out for, but make sure that you do not rely on just one veterinarian's opinion. And again, you want to be the primary health advocate for your dog. If you can assemble a whole cadre of advisors, nutritionists, veterinarians, people who help with buy for people to take care of your own stress levels. Those are so critical to the overall long term outcome that you're going to have with a dog cancer diagnosis. One of the things that Dr. Dressler says is that dogs don't have an expiration date. It's not like when you get a cancer diagnosis. Oh, my God, my dog has this many months to live because they will often vets will give a guestimate, and it is literally that it is usually just an average of dogs that traditionally have this type of cancer that are in this age. It's the medium so of those will live. Just an average will live to that will live that many days, months, years and 50% will live less and 50% will be more. So you could have an outlier and they may say, oh, it's nine months. You could have a dog that lives four or five years, which time? Seven is pretty significant if you equate this to human years only because no one really knows and that's where you have to to decide. I'm going to be in charge of this. I am really going to look at this as a long term thing. And cancer can be a thing you live with, like any other, like many other diseases. It's not a death sentence.

I'm glad you said that. I know when Dr. Marty Goldstein was on the show on this topic, he said cancer doesn't have to be a bad word. It's how you approach it. And so many people are so wrapped up and obsessed with cancer that they're not living in the moment with their dog.

Such. I love Marty. Marty. Marty is awesome, and I think he burned the book, the Dog Cancer Survival Guide, and he likes this approach because he really loves it. He sees it because he is all that a full fledged holistic that. But he has an appreciation for less holistic or allopathic lly trained bets and they work hand in hand. But he really, I think is right on right on target with that has such awesome advice.

Yes.

And what are your thoughts on feeding a ketogenic or low to no carb diet with a dog that has cancer?

Very good. The dog cancer diet, which is something else that that if you get a dog cancer diet. Com, you get Dr. Dressler book a booklet for free on that, and it focuses on the idea that cancer is fed by carbohydrates. Cancer eats sugars. So you want to reduce the amount of carbohydrates. However, that has been popularized and see if the book first came out in 2007. Over the years, people have gone a little bit crazy in this whole focus on Keto Genesis and dog cancer often times for, I think, for commercial reasons. But having a low carb diet is good, but there are like vegetables are really an important part of things and their carbohydrates and vegetables sometimes. Keto Genesis Dr. Dressler we have several episodes on dog cancer answers that address this very controversial topic because it has been often espoused by people who are not surprised, surprised veterinarians, but have some other ulterior motive to talk about this. But from all the research and study that I've done and my team is done, there are a bunch of people who work on this show who work to make this stuff really solid. We have a full time theme, dedicated Ness, and what we have all come to believe is that kit is not an endall and Beall for dog cancer. So you want to have certain cards, but in general, don't feed cancer with shorter, which is, of course, proper hydrants.

I'm glad you said that because I agree with you that there are good carbs and bad carbs. And of course, the antioxidants and vegetables are amazing. The phytonutrients are only going to help your dog with cancer.

You and cruciferous vegetables. And that's why the recipe in the dog cancer diet is kind of key. Now. It's a pain, but I know this goes back to the shaming thing because people look at it and go, I can't do all that for my dog. Well, you don't have to do all of it. It's good if you do. But it includes things like supplementing with Krill oil. There are certain things that you put into the food. And this modified dog cancer diet is in many ways what I was describing as Kangas diet. We do the supplements mixed in with high protein, a lot of vegetables, very low carb, because cancers do feast on sugar. It's the way that cancer is one of the ways that cancer is proliferate. There are others. But sugar is important.

Yes. Thanks for that. And everybody. We have a little less than 20 minutes and we really wanted to hear from all you guys. I see people that I know in the audience. Great. Carrie has something to say. I'm going to bring her up.

Hi.

Carrie.

Hi, Krista. How are you doing? I'm good.

How are you? Thanks for being here.

It's been a while since I've had a chance to be in club house and actually absorb information. And I'm sorry if this part of this. I wanted to talk about thoughts regarding sequencing and dogs because make no secret that I work. I have two things that I do. One is my dog products, but the other is working for this company that that uses AI and can go through a human molecular profile and using biomarkers that are known come up with new and novel combination therapies for cancer patients. And when you look at the capability to do this in humans. You would think, well, you could do this in dogs as well. But the problem with it in the canine setting is, I guess, really not that many people are sequencing the tumors of their canines. Just curious, James, if you have any color on that, I know that there's a newer company called Pet DX. I actually used to work with a lot of the execs there that just launched, and they're doing some liquid bio type tumor sequencing on dogs. And I was just curious to know if you are familiar with anybody else doing that and care.

It's actually a really good question, and it's really fascinating, and it is cutting edge, but it does exist. And to sound repetitive, we did an episode on that. Sounds like there's an app for that. We did a whole episode on it. We spoke with the founder CEO of one of those companies. A lot of them are Silicon Valley. It's really interesting to get a ton of venture capital, and because they're doing it on dogs, because the theory is if it works, some dogs, they can do it on people. So it's really, really interesting. And then sometimes, as you say, Carrie goes from people to dogs. But we have shows on that very subject, and often not every tumor or not, every dog is qualifies for it, meaning the type of cancer they have is not something that is compatible with this type of technology mechanism. And they will often give you a list of offlabel meds to use that then have to be created in a composite pharmacy, and they have different effects. But it is a really interesting thing, and it is definitely the future not only of veterinary medicine, but as you say, human medicine. So it's really cool. And we did, I think, one or two episodes of dog cancer answers on that subject. And we have not only the CEOs of the companies, but again, towards the idea of trying to really get this. We have our veterinarians, and we have a PhD epidemiologist who is our chief scientific officer for our shows. And she kind of goes into the pros and cons, and then we have, I believe, on that same episode, Trina Ha, who's a vet oncologist who uses this technology and loves it. So it's really interesting. Again, you have to decide what's best, but it's a great tool if it's available to you and you can afford it.

Yeah.

Thanks.

And that kind of parallels what's happening with in human medicine. I mean, if you're if you're going to get cancer and you have to take some drugs, it's not going to make you feel right. You really want to make sure it's actually going to have some sort of biological mechanism senior tumor that will react appropriately to that drug, and even just to know which drugs you shouldn't take is also incredibly helpful, because there's pathways in people and animals that, you know, confer resistance or should be not used, and knowing that information can really help you in all of your downstream therapy decisions. So I really wanted to get there for dogs. I'm super passionate about it on both sides, of course, because it's just such an awful thing to deal with. I hope we get there faster for our pets.

It is available. It is definitely available. There are a lot of companies again. Do your research and find out. Don't just rely on what the company is saying.

Yes, of course. Our AI works off of the results from sequencing companies so we can find a good partner there. Then I think we'll be in pretty good business, but I am definitely going to listen to you dog cancer episodes on that.

I think that's awesome. I'll do a two minute thing just talking about just riffing on what you said in terms of the importance of sequencing. My wife, who's a person did a 23 in me and she found out that she had a marker for this thing, which basically showed that she does not assimilate anesthesia. Well, which means it takes her a long time to wait for anesthesia. It is a pretty rare condition, but she wouldn't have known unless she had done the 23 and me, and now she wears a medevac or me. What do you call those bracelets? Medical alert bracelet in case she's ever in an accident and he goes to the hospital and then they give her anesthesia is really important for the anesthesiologist to know about that. And that wouldn't have happened unless she had taken that $100, $200. 23. And me to find out all that stuff. We're just in the infancy of this stuff, but it's pretty pretty cool.

Yeah, absolutely. I used to work for Alumina that makes like 95% of the sequencers out there. We are at the beginning. I think we're only a certain percentage of the way through the potential for this, like a really low. I think it's under 10% of the last time I heard somebody comment on it. There's so much more to come and so much more we can do with this. And all of the great companies out there starting to open their eyes up and utilize this for pets. I mean, the thing is, though, the one problem in paralleling the people with the animals, there's a lot fewer chemo drugs that they have. And I'm excited to hear that more drug companies and tech companies are looking at the the dog segment as well. I think all of the rush of people to getting pets during the pandemic will just continue to push the need for more research and looking into more things for beloved pets because they are so important in our lives. So I'm excited about I totally agree with you.

Thank you.

Well, thank you.

Thanks.

I'll check it out. I'm going to pop back to the audience. Thank you.

So much.

Thank you, James, as we are wrapping up here and everybody and anybody in the audience, please, this is your chance to share. So just raise your hand. Everybody's talking now about gut health, about the microbiome and that over of our immune system is located in the gut. Do you know of any studies going on as far as gut health and cancer?

Yes, but I can't take them off the top of my head. My Google alerts are pretty deep. And if you don't know about scholar. Google. Com, that is a really good way of learning stuff. So if you're interested in scholarly research, real stuff versus like stuff that is watered down and you have the patience to read it, there's a lot of ifs there, I recommend people check out scholar. Google. Com. But there is research that mirrors what's happening with humans, which is looking at the dog biome and the connection between that and cancer. And yeah, you're so right in the biome is such an incredibly important thing. And that's where having prebiotics and probiotics is so important. And if you ever need to give your dog an antibiotic, because for any reason, make sure that you do something to help restore that good flora.

Very good point. What would you like to leave us with, James? As far as this big, scary word of cancer and the statistics are only getting worse, what do you think we need to be mindful of?

Well, information. And we live in a world now that is a lot of people have put a lot of for lack of a better word, false information out for a variety of reasons. But there are some really vetted people who have been doing this for a while and are true researchers. And I wanted to shout out to one of the people who's in the audience here, Renee, from Tripods. They are an amazing organization that helps people who have a dog, that it becomes a tripod. They lose a leg, usually because of osteosarcoma, but it can be other reasons. And there's a tremendous support community that they have. There are some amazing groups that have been around for years and with really solid information. And so I wanted to recommend things like that. Of course, Dog Cancer answers. Com, which is our podcast and the Book of Dog Cancer Survival Guide. You have to be your dog's primary health care advocate. And so you need to arm yourself with good, solid information. Stay away from a lot of the stuff that seems a little too good to be true. There is someone out there on the Internet promoting a protocol that cures cures cancer based on a Benadryl and Tagamet and guess why. It doesn't work. And we've been ignoring it for ever and ever. And finally we've decided to do an episode which is going to be out soon. That really kind of talks about it. Now. The thing is, there's always a little grain of truth to something. So there is a particular type of cancer that benefits from taking Benadryl and Tagamet, but really has to do with the antihistamines. And this isn't cure anything. It just makes the dog more comfortable. Surprise, surprise. But there's so much, really bad information out there, and so make sure you're getting it from a trustworthy source. And that's what we work so hard to do and put together, which is really part of our mission. The answer is not a death sentence. There's lots you can do, and you just need to get the information that helps.

Well, thank you for vetting the people and the information. And yes, kudos to Renee and what she and her organization does. Hi, Renee of this year.

Hi there. Jim and I are in here, and we're just, like, we're blushing. Thank you so much for the nice things you said.

So true. You guys are amazing.

Well, thank you. But you know what a lot of what we do points back to your work, James and Dr. Dressler, and I just I don't think a day goes by. We don't tell somebody about the dog cancer survival guide because it is the foundation for everything that people should know if they get a cancer diagnosis. And it was the first time that I really learned that there is no one way to fight cancer and there's no right way. And there's no wrong way. There's only the way that makes you and your pet and your wallet happy, and that's different for everybody. So what I really love about your work is that you present all different sides of dealing with cancer, from the integrative to the traditional chemo to everything. And I love that. It's just very balanced, and we really appreciate what you do. So I just wanted to say thank you.

Mutual admiration society. It's not fun work. It's like I said, this is a podcast that we're sorry you have to listen to, and it can get depressing, and we lose customer service agents on our team because I can't hear more stories. But it feels so worthwhile when we hear stories from people around the world who say that this made the difference in everything about how my dog's quality of life, because that's what it comes down to one. Don't you think it's about quality of life?

Absolutely. And gyms over here shaking his head. Yes, that it's not about how much time you're going to get, how much time they tell you you're going to get. It's about what you do with whatever time you have left. And if you're totally stressing out over what you're doing for your dog, that's a really good medicine for them. You just make the most of it. Start with a good foundation like your work and what you do over a dog cancer survival and get multiple opinions, because there is no one way to do this.

Sure.

Thank you.

Thank you, Renee. For being here. We appreciate you. And we also have Dr. Marlene Siegel with us today. Hi, Dr. Siegel.

Hey, everybody. Thank you for the little buzz in. I appreciate that. I love everything that you guys have said you were very spot on. And the one thing, if I may add, is that in our quest to name it and blame it and then come up with a fix, we really have forgotten our basics, which is how do we support the body's innate biological intelligence? And that includes what are the things that we are doing in our lifestyle that are literally contributing to the problem? So as much as we want to have the right chemo, the right CBD, the combination, the right genetic testing, we still have to go back to the very basics, which is what caused the cancer to happen to begin with. So when we can stop polluting the body by taking responsibility and looking at the diet that we're feeding, the type of water that we're using, the chemicals that we're using in the household, the amount of EMF that our animals are exposed to, and, of course, the ants in the the parents brains, which are those automatic negative thoughts. We need to start addressing that. And then, of course, looking at the deficiency of essential nutrients or the toxicity of things that are creating metabolic distress. Ors these are so simple to address that it's almost in my opinion, it is almost malpractice to not address the basics of the biology. What is it that we're either too much of or that we're missing, that we can easily test for easily supplement? And then, of course, my wheelhouse is detoxification. So how can we support the organs of elimination so that they can do their job? And when you do all of that, which is just your lifestyle, this is not going out there and spending tons of money on weird things. It's really living that sustainable healthier lifestyle, but making choices on what you purchase and what you put on the skin and what you're breeding and the mitochondrial support comes naturally when you start setting up the foundation. So I just wanted to remind everybody that as we're searching for that magic bullet, if we can just start cleaning up our lifestyles and our thoughts and start living a more sustainable lifestyle that literally takes care of 60% of the problems that I deal with with my patients. And we are primarily a cancer clinic. But my patients have phenomenal quality of life. Like everybody said that's your number one goal, longevity is fantastic if you can get it. Some of our patients are cured of cancer within five to 16 weeks, and others live with their cancer. Like James said, it's not always about getting rid of something, but about learning how to cope with it. And my last comment is that I we also need to look at the things that we create in our lives as a blessing. So when your animal has cancer, a lot of pet parents come in to me and they start making those changes within the lifestyle to support the pet. But it also helps them because almost everybody ends up coming back and saying, oh, well, I have this illness and that illness the parents are suffering from a lot of diseases or somebody in the household is as well. So when we are able to clean up the pet's environment, it cleans up our environment, cleans up Mother Earth because you'll have a lot less toxins going into Mother Earth as well. And it just becomes a real positive movement. The energy of everything improves. So with that happy note, there's so much that we can do, we just have to learn how to make better choices. Thank you for letting me speak.

Thank you, Dr. Siegel. I can't agree more. And I'm excited because Dr. Segal is going to be talking about that exact topic, detoxing your dog and it's going to be right here on the Wag Out Loud Room on Monday, October 11 at the same time. So you guys can Mark that on your calendars. We'd love to have you here. So thank you, Dr. Siegel, and we are going to wrap up. So, James, where can everyone learn more about you? The Dog Podcast Network and your show, Dog Cancer Answers well, different websites.

Dog Cancer Answers. Com has all the website has the show. You can either listen to it as an audio and your favorite podcast player, or there's a whole YouTube channel that's actually really good. And as I said, I started before the podcast did, and then we have a support group on Facebook. It's free. You can go to it. Dog Cancer Support. Com. The book is Dog Cancer Book. Com. And then the whole network. The thing that brought us all together, Christ is Dog Podcast Network, Dot. Com. And that's where we have other shows that I want people to listen to all the time. And it's not just for dogs with cancer. Our flagship show is called Dog Edition. It is the world's first podcast designed to listen to while you walk. Your dog is 20 to 30 minutes long. It sounds like All Things Considered from National Public Radio, with a bunch of different segments on each episode. And it's really good to listen to while you walk you to all the things you're doing.

James, when do you sleep?

But I have a great team. I have a great team of people. That how important.

Thank you for all you do. Thanks for being here today. And thanks to all of you for wanting to do better and be a better advocate for your dog. So this room is hosted by the Wag Out Loud Club. So if you're not a member yet, just tap on the small green House icon on the top left of your screen and join and follow and check out all of our upcoming scheduled rooms and topics. Like I mentioned, Dr. Marlene Siegel is going to be on October 11. So check that out how to detox your dog. And if you want to be the best advocate for your dog's health and wellness, of course, you're welcome to check out all of our podcast episodes on your favorite podcast player or directly on Wag Out loud. Com. Thank you, James. Thank you to all the other dog lovers have a tail wagging day.