Food to Fight Disease! A Vet Pathologist's Perspective

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What is hypothyroidism in dogs? Well, it's caused by fluctuations in hormones caused by inflammation or shrinkage of the thyroid gland. And actually more than 95% of hypothyroid canine cases are caused by unknown thyroid gland atrophy or immune destruction of the thyroid. Some of the classic signs of hypothyroidism are weight gain without an increase in appetite, loss of energy, lack of desire to exercise, your dog will get cold easily, their hair is dry or dull, they might be shedding excessively, increased dark pigmentation in their skin, they are more susceptible to skin and ear infections. They have a failure to regrow hair after they've been clipped or shaved, have high blood cholesterol or a slow heart rate. And basically this is a condition where metabolism slows down because the thyroid gland is under active. But it's really easy to have your vet do blood tests to check your dog's thyroid function.

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Food to Fight Disease! A Vet Pathologist's Perspective

Growing up with a garden full of fresh food, getting an education in vet med and vet pathology, Dr. Suzee Camilleri combined her passions for understanding how food influences diseases in dogs. She helps dog parents navigate the very busy and confusing world of dog food and how to choose ones that help decrease chances of disease and live a longer life!

Hello dog lovers! Thanks for tuning in to yet another awesome Wag Out Loud pawdcast episode. And today I am thrilled to have Dr. Suzee Camilleri on the Show and she's going to share Food to Fight Disease: a Vet Pathologist’s Perspective. So Dr. Suzee, thank you, first of all for being here today. Would you please introduce yourself and tell us why you've dedicated your life to the study of how food can be the best medicine, especially for our dogs?

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here with you. Essentially, I went to vet school and I really liked pathology. I found it really interesting how diseases worked. So I went on to do a residency. And then I worked in academia with different animal models of human disease and worked with doctors and scientists to figure out how different diseases work. And essentially, through a lot of the animal research, there was very interesting findings in studies that were using different foods to test different parameters in animals. And I always found those studies really, really interesting. And just on a personal note, growing up, I grew up with a European family where he had a huge garden, we ate fresh vegetables, fresh food all the time. And as my parents got older, I could see a difference in how they were aging in terms of sticking with fresh foods. It really helped and I decided that food is our best medicine for protecting us from aging. And that's for us as well as our animals. So I shifted my career out of the lab into dog nutrition consulting, and helping pet parents navigate this crazy world of a billion dog foods that are out there.

Well, thank you for doing what you do. Because I mean, you and I both know that the dog food landscape is literally the Wild West. And totally agree with not really having any regulations in place there. You know, people think oh, there must be an agency or organization that regulates dog food. Well, there isn't. So how do you suggest that we navigate this crazy world of pet food to find the best food for our dogs?

That's the million dollar question. It's interesting, because there's different ways to go about it, depending on what your background and motivation, and how much time you have. So I find people who have had dogs that have had diseases where certain medicines and certain prescription diets have not worked, that they tend to really, really research, what foods are good and try to find out everything they can. But not everyone has the time to do that. Or the inclination, maybe their dog is on, you know, a generic kibble that they thought was okay. And the dog seems fine. But I think the most important thing is, educate yourself on it and question things, I think that's the biggest thing, because I think this whole, all of pet food is undergoing a huge disruption. Because humans, people have questioned where their own food is coming from. We've done a lot of digging, we found a lot of things we didn't like. And now we're doing the same with our pets’ food. And I think, talking to people, finding reputable people, reputable resources, you know, you can start with your vet. There's a lot of vets out there who are trying to make this better, and recommend better Whole Foods. And but remember, it's a system, right, these pet food companies have been around for so long. And I grew up thinking that feeding our dog kibble was just it's just what you did, because you know, 30 years ago, that's what everybody did. So I think having an open mind, really questioning, like when you go and buy some food, look at the ingredients. Do you understand it? Do you know where it's coming from? Do you know what it is? And then make decisions as best you can from that?

Right. You know, it blows my mind. You talked about kibble. And I didn't know this before I got into this space, that kibble or dry dog food was originally designed as a short term option for dogs in the war overseas. You know, it was easy to store, it didn't need refrigeration. So it just blows my mind that it's even still around. Because before kibble even came on to the scene, you know, we were feeding fresh whole food table scraps, and then they had this marketing campaign. Oh, no, that's bad for your dog. No, don't give your dog people food. Right. Here we are, with, as you said, these billion dollar companies that I won't name names, but one is a candy manufacturer. Like, okay, do they have any business in the dog food space? Right, you know? So it blows my mind that this is where we are. But I think I agree with you that people are asking questions, and the word is getting out. And veterinarians are slowly thinking differently, because we know they don't have nutrition in vet school still, which, why?

When I was in vet school, too, it was all we learned a little bit about toxic things like you know, obviously, if a dog, too much of anything is bad, mainly about like, vitamin deficiencies and vitamin overdoses, right? Because those things can happen in animals. But I think like when you think about the big picture in terms of food, and food science and nutrition, when I was in vet school, and I think the same is for human doctors, nutrition was always considered the soft science, right? There was not the science to back up that, let's say eating greens would help decrease cancer or something like that. Because and that's when about midway through my career, I'm like, why is that? Why did nutrition not grow like these other sciences, when it's stuff we put in our bodies every day, three or four times a day, five times a day, six times a day. And we really don't know how it works in our bodies. We assumed we did and we know what happens if there's too much or too little, but didn't really look at it. Specifically in terms of what you know, when you break down kale and it breaks down in the digestive tract. What happens to everything and you know, it was never really tested out. And so what I found out was that nutrition really didn't get off the ground like other sciences like chemistry or toxicology because you couldn't get people, for example, for a period of six months to eat the same thing. And you know, drink the same thing. Whereas in lab animals, you can control their environment, their food, the lighting. So it just, you know, was not practical, and you couldn't do it. And I thought, okay, fine, but then we do have animals so we can try it in animals. And, you know, we live in a society where I think using animals for research is a privilege. So let's make the most of the information we get. So why not? You know, when you're testing a drug or something, why can't you have a subset that's eating really well, and taking the drug and see what happens? Right. So then I looked further into it, and thought okay, how do you get funding for this? And that was the problem. Yeah. Where do you get money from the government, because, you know, a lot of basic, unbiased research is done at research centers in academia, where, you know, we don't have companies funding the studies to keep it, ”unbiased”, but there wasn't anywhere to go, I couldn't go somewhere and say, Okay, I want to study how greens in dogs’ diets influence their health over four or five years. They're like, okay, that's nice. Well go fund it yourself. Right? No one's gonna fund that. So I started researching, you know, like, Raw was coming out, all these other diets were coming out, and I'm trying to find research on it, and no one's going to fund that. So that has been a big problem with new foods coming out for pets. A lot of those studies aren't even supported for humans or funded for humans, let alone for dogs, right. Like, you know, the whole Mediterranean diet, how they found out, it was good that was done like, over a period of 20-30 years studying different populations in the Mediterranean and taking their blood and getting cooperation from different cardiologists like, these are huge, huge efforts. But then, again, when you think about pets, there's less pets, so it should be easier to figure this out. And I think it's changing. I think there's, there's more research coming out on looking at, you know, fresh whole foods, looking at the different types of foods, what is it doing to their blood, their urine, their plasma, and now we're at an advantage too where pets are living longer. And people are paying more to keep their aging pets. So it's a really good opportunity that we have in science to collect samples from these animals and analyze them and find out, you know, you change your dog's diet in their senior years, maybe they live four or five years longer, you know, depending on, you know what you're doing. So, the more I dug into it, the more I found it, okay, it's so complicated. I was naive, right? I was younger, newer in my profession, and just thinking, oh, yeah, let's do this. Well, it's not that easy. It boils down to money. And I think one thing you said that really resonated with me is the marketing. Right? When that dry dog food for the war, they're like, oh, wow, this works. Somebody just said, Well, it's cheaper. Right has a longer shelf life. Why don't we just market it? And they did. And look how long it lasted.

Oh, yeah. It's got a big juicy steak on the front of the bag. So it must be good for my dog. Well, we could talk for days, of course on. Yeah, marketing ploys out there. But to your point, I agree. In both human medicine as well, as you know, we're talking dogs. So canine veterinary medicine, things are coming out. You know, just a few years ago, I never knew about the gut microbiome, and how that played such a huge role in our immune system. So that translates into dogs. Leaky Gut Syndrome. That could be the core reason for so many ailments in our dogs. Okay, then. To me, it's just easy to go back to well, why is this happening? Oh, well kibble. Most kibble is over 40% carbohydrates, and many people including me, before I got into this, I never knew that dogs have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrates. Yet we are feeding them an equivalent of Captain Crunch cereal every day, twice a day for the rest of their life. Is that nutritionally sound? No, no And that's why we have the diseases, including the cancer rates are going up. So I'm going to get off my soapbox. And why don't we start with in your opinion, because I know there's two different camps, are dogs omnivores, or carnivores?

A Dog’s Digestive System

You know, that I, I'm confused still, because I try to keep up to date on the literature. I tried to sort out what's, you know, good science, what's not good science. I'm tending towards they’re… and I'm not trying to sit on the fence. They're not as carnivorous as cats are. That's one thing that's become evident. And part of the reason from what I understand is that when they were domesticated dogs just lived closer to humans than cats did. And interestingly, I think what’s coming out. And I say, think because I'm still reading some papers on different enzyme levels in that that dogs have throughout their digestive tract is that they were fed some carbs. And I think over time, people saw that they were okay with it, right? Like, if you gave a dog a piece of bread, nothing happened. So out of necessity and costs, probably they just threw grains in to the food and thought nothing major is happening to them. So over the years, most of society thought, yeah, it's okay. And I think what happened is that probably their digestive system, very mildly adapted to that, so that they were because remember, dogs, we're talking 1000s of years, right? That dogs have been around. So within that time, it is possible for their metabolism, or digestive enzymes to adapt. And so I think there was an adaptation, and nothing major happened. But then more and more as society progressed to where we are, what's cheaper to put into the foods, right? Much cheaper than the proteins, so they did adapt. Now, does it give them optimal health? I don't think so.

Okay, I'm going to stop you there because that's a perfect place to take a pause. We are gonna take a quick commercial break and we will be right back.

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Okay, we are back in this great discussion with Dr. Suzee Camilleri. And you had just talked about carnivore or omnivore and I like where you're coming from. It's hard to I think they lean towards carnivore. But they can easily digest carbohydrates, plant matter. And I think we should be feeding a little bit of veggie and fruit for the phytonutrients and antioxidants, you know a little bit. So, again, we could talk just about that forever. So Dr. Suzee, in your mind, let's get right to it. What is the best diet for most healthy adult dogs?

Proper Canine Nutrition

From what I see, they need a good chunk of protein that's just plain and simple. Right? They are not wolves but they evolved from wolves. So they have a very similar carnivorous digestive tract. They were fed carbs throughout history. And I think people did that out of convenience and cost and perhaps over time their system adjusted a little bit to some carbs. And people saw that nothing bad happened to them. Right. And this was where probably the marketing came in. And people just, I'm saying people, let's say companies are making dog foods, added these things because they, you know, meet the requirements for certain vitamins and minerals that were in these carbohydrates, and they could, you know, get the whole standards up to par using those cheaper ingredients. But were they necessarily really better for the dog? And that's where there's no straight answer yet. But I think it's becoming clear that feeding them good quality proteins, and Yep, definitely adding some vegetables, fruits, for the antioxidants, for fiber. Yeah, sorry, I totally forgot about the fats. Yeah, good quality fats. Give them optimal health. And I think now where studies are coming out, and again, I mean, we've talked about this before, it's hard to dissect out a good study from a bad study. And me being in science for over 15 years looking at quality journals and papers, you have to know what you're reading, if you don't understand it, take it to somebody who might understand it better, because it's very difficult to read some of these papers and figure out what the true conclusion is. And that's why it's so confusing for pet parents, because they read so many different things. It does get confusing, but to answer your question, bottom line, good, whole, non processed, quality proteins, you know, whether it's chicken, beef, and then adding in, it's basically like, a good meat, dinner with some salad on the side, so to speak, and some fruit and some oil on top right. Like, that's really how they thrive. That's how they thrive. And I think the nutrients they're getting from those fresh quality non processed foods is what gives them longevity too. Yeah.

So we're talking about using food as medicine. What diseases in your mind would help with food therapy? Or what could you possibly prevent by feeding a species appropriate fresh food diet?

Why Feed Your Dog Fresh?

Right? I think the biggest one that comes to mind is obesity. Pet obesity is the number one cause of a lot of morbidity and mortality in dogs and cats. And definitely, it's a very similar theme. It's so interesting, isn't it that even in humans, the more processed foods you eat the things that give you the fast glucose rush, lead to obesity. And it's the same thing with animals, even though they're not exactly like us. There's similarities in how they digest and process food, that giving them all of that. It's not just even extra calories, it's extra bad calories that lead to these metabolic diseases. So when I say obesity, underlying that comes with it. diabetes, arthritis and heart issues, right? Because obesity itself is like, how would you describe it? It's like a cup full of disease, right? You have obesity, and then in it, there's a bunch of other diseases that it causes. So I think, you know, if you, you look at that there's that's four diseases, then I listed right obesity, heart disease, osteoarthritis, diabetes, that can be manipulated, by giving your dog fresh quality food. And that's where, you know, some people say, Oh, food’s not medicine, dogs can't live forever. No, they can't. Nobody can live forever, unfortunately. But you want to give them the best life and slow down the disease. Basically, by giving fresh food, you’re eliminating or slowing down four major diseases that vets deal with every day, obesity, osteoarthritis, heart disease and diabetes. And there are studies to show that feeding fresh food can decrease these and it's not like I said, it's not just even the calories if you overfeed your dog fresh food here and there. It's okay. They're not going to die. You know, just take them for a longer walk or throw the ball a bit longer. And I honestly think that's where you know the food is medicine mantra has come down is that we can slow down aging. We can slow down obesity. We can slow down diabetes by these foods because this is how their body was meant to be. And you're optimizing their enzymes, their metabolism with natural micro, macronutrients that their bodies already know how to do. And they work optimally with those ingredients. Right?

Okay. So the next step would be to get off of dry processed food. And factory farming is the norm. So we have that, which the animals that are being farmed to be put into pet food, they're not healthy. So we've got that part. And then when we talk about vegetables and fruits, here in the States, we use glyphosate on any crop except for organic. So in your mind, is it better to feed factory farmed meats, with veggies that have been sprayed with this awful pesticide that has been proven to cause disease? Or I guess it's safe to say, in a perfect world, if your finances allow it? We should be feeding pasture raised, pasture finished meats, and organic fruits and vegetables? Is that what you think as well?

The Ideal Canine Diet

In my ideal world, we would all be eating that. Absolutely. I think it's just a no brainer. I think there's there's research out there to back it up, especially, you know, with all of these chemicals that they're finding in pets’ urine and human urine, that all of these things are just we can't go on using these things. But again, you brought up the point about budget. Yeah, it is not in everybody's budget to do this. So what do you do? Right, you know, we’re all doing our best, and some fresh veggies. If they're not organic, they're still much better than giving them a kibble from highly processed food that has not an ounce of freshness in it. Those vitamins and minerals, they're going to get those vitamins and minerals, from the fresh food that you figure out is the best food for your dog. And I honestly think it's still better. The other thing is, you know, different fruits and vegetables have different amounts of pesticides that are absorbed. So I'm just using kale again, just as an example, because it's just coming to mind. But don't always give your dog kale, you know, give them a variety of vegetables. And, and I do look at that. So it's like the Dirty Dozen and the Clean 15, I can't remember what it's called. They're the lists that they put out for produce that has the most and the least amount of pesticides on them. And given the ones that are, you're able to feed dogs, give them to them, the benefits still outweigh all the other negatives that highly processed foods will do to them in the long term. And mostly, I think where the evidence points to is, again, longevity in these animals, they’ll live, you know, they're not necessarily going to be 100% free of cancer, they might get some osteoarthritis, because these are normal age related things that happen, but you can slow it down.

So if you have somebody that has a multi dog household that doesn't have the budget, what would you recommend? Should they because we have to be careful if we say, Oh, well, I'm just going to create a diet for my dog, and 99.9% of the time, you're going to be missing out on essential nutrients. And that's why at least with kibble, you can say it's complete and balanced with those added synthetic vitamins and minerals. So would you use something like that as a base, and then add maybe some cooked or fresh meat and some veggies to the bowl? Or look for another base? You know, there's so many bases now of veggie mixes. I like Dr. Harvey's .I love Dr. Harvey's and just adding meat and oil. It's a complete meal. Right? What do you suggest? Because you're right studies have shown just three times a week adding leafy greens to a kibble diet. The chances of getting cancer for that dog are in the 90 percentile, less chance of getting cancer just by putting leafy greens into the kibble bowl three times a week.

I totally agree. I think bare minimum, somebody with, you know, a very basic budget who just cannot make things stretch. The one because I've had clients who've asked this. So you can, you can look online, there's lists of vegetables that are good for dogs and ones that are not. And one thing you can do is, let's say all you can get is kibble. That's all you can afford. Hopefully you're buying frozen vegetables for you and your family. You can give your dogs frozen vegetables as snacks, or put them on top of the kibble. As an example, I don't know why my dogs like this, but I started I think when they were young, I buy frozen brussels sprouts because I really love brussels sprouts, and I like to have them when they're off season. And I give them like three or four little frozen brussels sprouts and they go off, they think it's like a bone and it's crunchy. You know, you can give frozen carrots or if you have fresh stuff, you can just cut it up and freeze it. And you know, bare minimum, make their snacks healthy, right? Like the the little in between their meals, make those healthy, and then add some to the bowl as well, because they're super low calorie, they're at least getting the vitamins, micronutrients and fiber in its natural form. And you're giving them more of a palette too so that if you do get to a point where you can buy fresher food, they're going to taste it and and like it. Right.

Well, Dr. Susie, I can't believe this. We're coming to an end here. But what is your take on rotating proteins?

Yeah, I totally recommend rotating proteins. It's, you know, having been in pathology, studying some immunology, like how the immune system works, you need the… dogs bodies need exposure to different proteins, so that the antibodies in their body get used to them. Because if you keep a dog on one protein, its whole life, then all of a sudden switch to lamb. It could be okay, if they have digestive issues, that could be okay. But they could also have a reaction to that later because they've never been exposed to it. It's very similar to how people expose babies to different foods when they're young, right? You give them a little bit, wait a week, see what happens, you know, if they have a big reaction, then obviously, they can't have strawberries or whatever the food is. Same thing. You know, with younger dogs, I tell people, you know, if you can give them two or three different proteins, see how they tolerate it. That way their immune system is getting used to it and is balanced so that as they age, they're used to that.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I totally agree, because every protein source has its unique amino acid profile. So just like us, we should be eating a variety as well. So I totally agree with you there. Well, Dr. Susie, thank you for all of this great information. Where can everybody find out more about you and your practice?

Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. My website is the best place to reach me. It's www.drsuzee.com .

Your Social Media URLs or Tags

         Instagram: @drsuzee

         Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drsuzee/

         LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drsuzeecamilleri/

Okay, and all of this will be in the show notes. And Dr. Susie, you have clients all over the world, right?

Pretty close to all over the world. Yeah, most are North American. But I do get a lot of calls from Europe because people are connecting now. And trying to connect with like minded people to find out what's the best for their dog.

Well, I just think we're in a great place. changes are being made. New proteins are being developed without the slaughter. And I'm so excited to learn more about, you know, fungi, and insects are being introduced into food. There's just so many exciting things on the horizon. So I think changes are being made, which is really exciting.

It is very exciting. And I'm looking forward to seeing what's what's going to happen.

Yep. Well, thank you Dr. Suzee, for all you do. Appreciate you.

Thanks so much. Take care.

Again, thanks to the team at Dr. Harvey’s for sponsoring this episode. When you choose Dr. Harvey’s you and your dog benefit from over 30 years of research and experience. Keep your dog healthy and happy by checking out all of their amazing products at https://www.drharveys.com/ and don’t forget to get 10% off at checkout with code WOL10

Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time.

Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode?