Canine Cannabinoids for Dummies
Hello everyone this is Krista with Episode #147 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Do you know why dogs curl up in a ball when they sleep? Well, it's actually to protect their organs. It's a holdover from their days in the wild when they were vulnerable to predator attacks.
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Canine Cannabinoids for Dummies
Alex Kozushin started Genie's Therapeutics with his wife and co-founder, Christi Webb, when their Airedale Terrier, Genie, was diagnosed with a fast-growing nasal cancer. With few options available, they developed a cannabinoid-containing tincture to help Genie. Genie lived two more healthy years after starting with cannabinoids. After fours years of research and development, Genie's released their first product, "Hemp Signature Blend," this past September.
Hello dog lovers and welcome to another fascinating Wag Out Loud episode. And today I am joined by Alex Kozushin, and he is here to dumb down all of the confusion and overwhelm around CBD for our dogs. So Alex, first of all, I want to thank you for being with us today. Could you please introduce yourself and tell us why are you so passionate about the science of cannabinoids for canines?
Sure, and thanks for the question. My name is Alex Kozushin. And I am the CEO of Genie’s Therapeutics, and we're a canine wellness company. And our signature product is a CBD product. So we first got involved or I first got involved in CBD when our Airedale Terrier, our beloved Airedale Terrier, was diagnosed with the fast growing sarcoma in his nasal passage, and he had to go through a bunch of different surgeries. And there were no real positive options. And we were basically given a very poor prognosis of three to four months, or six to eight months with radiation and side effects that came along with it. And we wanted to give Genie something to make him feel better, because we weren't sure how long he was going to be around. And so we formulated our first tincture, back in 2016. And the results were amazing. And from that point on, we spoke to our veterinarian after Genie was diagnosed in remission. And she said that we had an obligation to move over to this. This was the first organized formulation that she had seen. And she had many anecdotal stories about CBD, and cannabis helping other dogs. And that was our motivation, we got started, we actually took our formulation and we went out to social media and we said, We'll give it to you for free if you can, if you can demonstrate to us that would potentially benefit your dog. And three years later, the results were amazing. And we move forward. So I see so many amazing stories and results. With even the most basic CBD products, even the basic CBD isolates that I can't help but be passionate because I know that our wellness is directly correlated to the wellness of our fur babies. So I know the difference it makes and I'm really looking forward to discussing it.
Well, I am so happy that you're here to share your expertise. And thanks to Genie, for being the dog that started all of this to help other dogs. And I think our listeners know that we've had many episodes in the past focusing on CBD, how it's made, how to read a certificate of analysis, how to speak to your vet about it, the studies showing how it treats cancer and even recently we had one on how it benefits dogs with Cushing's. So Alex, before we dive in, can you quickly summarize what is the difference between hemp and cannabis?
Difference between hemp and cannabis
Well, from a scientific perspective, there is no difference. It's the same exact plant so the only difference is regulatory difference. So there's often you hear hemp and marijuana, two different things. Really they’re the exact same plant. What the regulatory difference is that THC. So the FDA considers anything point 3% of THC or less to be hemp. Anything that has point 3% more of THC is considered cannabis. They're all cannabis. It's all cannabis. The reason why they use this kind of regulatory distinction is because the one cannabinoid THC can be intoxicating to humans and dogs. So therefore, that's why the regulatory difference. Otherwise there is no difference from the scientific perspective.
What is the endocannabinoid system?
Okay, great explanation. Well, the science of cannabis, you know, we've realized I didn't know before I got into this field that we have an endocannabinoid system and our dogs do as well. Can you briefly tell us, what does that system actually do? How does it work?
You're exactly right, we actually have an endocannabinoid system. And as well as dogs do. In fact, dogs actually have a larger system, more receptors in their brainstem than actually humans do. And this endocannabinoid system actually affects all parts of our wellness, from neurological, the physiological to gut health, and everything in between. So our endocannabinoid system has an effect on every part of our wellness. And that's the same goes for dogs.
Wow, that's amazing. So in your mind, we as well as our dogs, should be taking some sort of CBD as a preventative.
As a wellness measure, absolutely. And it's all about dosing. But the reality is that when we tested over the course of three years, we've done at once there was a therapeutic dose achieved, that the parents of the dogs did not want to stop utilizing CBD because there was a wellness factor associated. Their dog had a little bit more energy, they can have more pep in the step. Their tails are wagging a little bit more. So overall, there is no negative in taking CBD. There's almost no side effects. And the positives, way outweigh the negatives.
Okay. And is CBD the only cannabinoid that we should care about? Or are there others?
Oh, yes, so CBD is an important major cannabinoid. But there are plenty of others. And research is really just beginning. So far, we know that there's over 300 chemical compounds in the cannabis plant, and that includes cannabinoids, terpenes, which is a smell, and flavonoids. And we're just tipping the iceberg. And what we know is we've done studies on how CBD affects mammals. We've done studies on how THC affects mammals. But we haven't even started to research all these other cannabinoids, let alone when these cannabinoids are combined together, what's known as an entourage effect and the effect that they have when they're combined together. So we're just beginning the research really on the potential of our endocannabinoid system and cannabinoids.
That's amazing. Well, I've heard some people say I don't know if you agree that cannabis is the single most significant new development in veterinary medicine to emerge in the last 20 years. Do you agree with that?
Yes, I do agree with that. There is really CBD and cannabinoids affect all part of dogs’ wellness, all parts of their physiology. So and the early results have been so tremendous in testing that really there is really nothing that compares so far in the latest research. There's been no medication. In the last 20 years veterinary medicine and Veterinary Health there haven't been too many new medications. There hasn't been too many new research that has shown as promising as cannabinoids. So I do genuinely believe that. This is that cannabinoids are the best prospects for canine wellness.
Acidic forms of cannabinoids
Okay, well, before I got into this, I never knew about the acidic forms of cannabinoids. So can you break that down because this is for dummies. And I feel like I'm a dummy when it comes to acidic forms. So talk about it. What what do those look like and what do they do?
Sure, so the acidic forms of cannabinoids show incredible potential. And really, there's been we're just starting to research there. What the acidic oral cannabinoid just for example, CBDA and then is the acidic form of CBD. THCA is the acidic form of THC. These cannabinoids are extracted when the plant is still wet before the plant is decarboxylated. Decarboxylated means when the plant starts to degrade and dry. Then that THCA, that CBDA turns into THC and CBD. There's new research that really indicates that CBDA, THCA, these acidic forms react in different ways on dogs, than they're decarboxylated cousins like CBD and THC. And the new research really out of Cornell University even indicates that when these the acidic form, and the regular form is combined together, the results are even more efficacious, even more promising. So the interesting thing about these acidic forms, for example, with THCA, THC is intoxicating to humans and to dogs. And that is one of the side effects. What's interesting is the acidic form of THC, THCA is not intoxicating. So there's an awful lot of research on the human and canine side that shows that these acidic forms could be even more promising medicinally, then even their decarboxylated cousins.
That's amazing. Well, you mentioned the Cornell study. And they proved that the one to one ratio of CBD and CBDA, shows even stronger anti inflammatory benefits. And we know inflammation is the root cause of all disease. So that's really exciting to me.
Oh, yeah, that's potentially the most exciting part. And that study showed that when you combine CBD and CBDA, you actually can use less, and it lasts longer. And it's more consistent in the bloodstream. I mean, the results are so promising and so exciting for these acidic forms.
Is the acid actually extracted from the plant or how is the acid itself made?
So the acidic forms are in the plant before when the plant is still living, when the plant is still whole, before it's cut down. And the trick, they have to be handled very carefully in order to be able to extract these acidic forms before the plant starts to dry, and degrade. So the extraction process has to happen without heat. And it has to happen very quickly. So often, it's more expensive and more challenging to extract. So hopefully in the future, we'll find ways to lower the cost of extracting these acidic forms, but it's challenging and it has to happen very quickly before the plant starts to degrade.
Fascinating. Well, I think this is a great time for us to take a quick commercial break, so we will be right back.
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And we are back with this fascinating talk about CBD for dogs and Alex is dumbing it down for us, which we really appreciate. But so much stuff I didn't know before. Alex, we're now going to get into we've heard about carrier oils. Tell us why we need to care about the carrier oil with different CBD products.
Importance of Carrier Oils
You know, Krista in that earlier question you had about the Cornell University study, there was also some really interesting information that came out of that study. And basically, there's a couple of different points to make. First of all, there is some research that indicates that coconut oil, which is a medium chain, triglyceride or often known as MCT oil, can be inflammatory in dogs. It's beginning research, but there is showing that that is that potential. And therefore, when Cornell did the study, they actually utilized what's called long chain triglycerides. Long chain triglycerides are different than medium chain triglycerides. So some examples of long chain triglycerides are sesame oil, olive oil, fish oil. And some examples of medium chain triglycerides are hemp seed oil, coconut oil, palm oil. So this new research really indicates that when using besides the potential for inflammation with coconut oil, besides that, there's also potential to increase efficacy of cannabinoids using long chain triglycerides. So LCT oils tend to be a little bit more expensive. They're not as easily stable, but they are more efficacious. And they do allow for ,at least preliminary research is. showing that they allow for CBD to stay in the bloodstream longer and more consistently, than it would with a medium chain triglyceride. So this research is just beginning. But it's really, really important to understand that this potential is really large. And really, the takeaway is, we need to be careful with coconut oil, because we're not potentially it could be fine. But early research indicates that it could be inflammatory. So if we're using cannabinoids to be anti inflammatory, it's counterproductive to be using a carrier oil with those cannabinoids that causes inflammation.
Makes sense. Well, just a reminder to everybody this industry is not regulated, and therefore we see so many products out there. You know, we don't know which ones to choose, which are good, which are bad. So I wanted to ask you about, we see some products such as yours, with a USDA organic certification. Can you tell us about that and why it's so important?
USDA Organic
Oh, absolutely. Yes, it's critical. You know, Krista, just as you pointed out, our industry is a little bit like the Wild Wild West, there is no regulation, very little. So the USDA organic certification is really important, because there's an awful lot of products out there. And right now where the consumer or the pet parent is just becoming starting to become educated. So how do they figure out what's what? Because really, you could see a package on the shelf, generic package, and they could say this has 900 milligrams of CBD. In reality, there's no one checking that. There's no one assuring that that's accurate. Unless you have a certification body like USDA certifying the product. And basically, when you get that USDA organic certification, that tells you that the products are at least 95% organic, number one, and number two, what they say is in the bottle is in the bottle. And that's what's really important because otherwise you don't know. The USDA organic certification process requires third party testing. Not only that, they also evaluate your packaging. They make sure that you say the right things on the box. They they make sure that you don't say the wrong things. And they reject you until you get it right. So what does that mean? That means when you see that USDA organic certification, you can relax and know that's what's on the box is actually in the bottle.
And that it doesn't contain all the harmful pesticides that so many of our crops have, you know, we've had experts on the show talk about glyphosate for one. So this is just a reassurance that we are not giving our dogs a toxic contaminated product, right?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, there's an awful lot of testing labs out there. So just a third party testing, which you often see isn't always a reassurance. You don't know the relationship between the brand and laboratory. You don't know how reliable that laboratory is. So with the USDA, they verify everything, they check everything. And as you pointed out, all these contaminants, including different ways that these cannabinoids are extracted, are potentially in the product. And until you get that USDA organic certification that tells you they're not in there, you cannot know that for sure unless you do your own testing.
Right. Well, I know one of the biggest topics when it comes to CBD for our dogs is dosing. Can you unpack that for us? How do we figure out dosing?
Proper Dosing
So really dosing is the most important thing when it comes to CBD. Because really, if you dose too little, then there's no therapeutic benefit. If you dose too high. There's also potential for no therapeutic benefit and there's also some potential for GI issues with too much carrier oil. So what's important is really that dosing. Science has shown us, including Cornell University, and plenty of other studies on canines and on humans that show us how important dosing is. So often you see on CBD products, you'll see something like a dog that weighs 3 to 25 pounds has one dose, a dog that weighs 26 to 50 pounds has a second dose, 51 to 75 pounds as a third dose. And really, there's no way that a three pound dog is going to have the same dose as a 25 pound dog. That's just not based on science. So what's really important is to get that proper dose. And the proper dose seems to be the target dose, two milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight. That's where often is the target dose. But what's important is titration up to start low, go slow, because really, you know, especially with CBD nowadays, once you reach your therapeutic benefit, there's no reason to go higher, you're wasting money, and you're increasing the potential for GI side effects. So once you get that therapeutic dose, you stop, and then you wait until the body adjusts, and you possibly move up or you don't. So dosing can't be based on 25 pound increments of bodyweight. It has to be based on every single pound of body weight. So unless you get dosing right, you might not see that therapeutic benefit on your dog, you may think it's not working while the potential is absolutely there to help your dog.
Make sense. So speaking of dosing, what are your thoughts on the products that we see such as treats with CBD? How can you even figure out what your dog is really getting? Since you're not administering via a tincture?
Treats with CBD
You know, that's a great, great question. And great point, Krista. And I'm still, I'm still concerned about treats for a couple different reasons. First of all, with treats you also have all these, you have the ingredient that makes the ingredients that make the treats themselves. So there's possibilities for allergic reaction, not sure how the dogs digest them. And then these treats have a certain set amount of cannabinoids in them. A certain set amount of CBD. So for example, if there's two milligrams of CBD in a treat, you have to give your larger dog 20 treats in order to get that therapeutic dose every 12 hours. So it's much easier to control dosing, it's much easier to titrate up. And it's substantially easier to get that therapeutic benefit using tinctures rather than treats. I am somewhat concerned about treats.
Well, and I hear for the future. That was my next question, that we're gonna see inhalers and transdermals beadlets and more topicals.
Oh, absolutely. There's so much potential and we know that we have cannabinoid receptors on our skin. And we know that dogs have cannabinoid receptors on their skin. So there's so much potential there for topicals. We know there's all types of different administration methods, but all you need to be tested in controlled dose by dose by dose by small increments, which treats often can't do.
Yeah. Do you think we're gonna see veterinary cannabis being taught in vet school?
Veterinary Education in CBD
It already is. I think you already see programs out there with in and they're just beginning you already see veterinary cannabis certification programs out there for veterinary technicians, for veterinarians. And they’re getting this done because the reality is veterinarians are asked every single day about CBD, about cannabinoids, and they're in a difficult situation. First of all, they're not particularly educated in it yet. And they also have these regulatory challenges. So considering the potential on canine wellness with cannabinoids, I think that we are just tipping the iceberg. And I I really think that there's going to be increased training, there’s going to be increased certification, including at these excellent veterinary programs all over the country.
That's so exciting. Is there anything else that you see as far as this science of CBD emerging in the near future?
CBGA
What I'm particularly watching is a cannabinoid called CBG. CBGA, the acidic form of CBG is considered the mother of all cannabinoids because everything starts from CBGA. Even CBDA and THCA. They come from CBGA. So what I'm particularly interested in I'm really interested in finding science and research that shows how this CBGA is extracted. And what potential therapeutic benefit there is on canines and on humans. I really think that the acidic forms, kind of circling back to acidic forms offer incredible potential and they also work scientifically different than cannabinoids do. They work with different receptors, or they work in different ways. So CBGA is really exciting for me.
We'll have to keep an eye on that. There's so many acronyms. How do you keep track?
Oh, gosh, you can and I still get lost but really just the focus is, you know, CBD, CBDA, and THC, THCA. Those are really the major cannabinoids right now that we're seeing in plants. Once we get that science down once we have an understanding, I think we'll move forward. But the potential is so exciting. So overwhelmingly exciting on the you know, for the medical and therapeutic benefits on dogs. And even on humans, that I'm overwhelmed with excitement about what the future holds for cannabinoids in canines.
Me, too. I think we're just scratching the surface. So Alex, do you agree that higher quality and purity are usually associated with a higher cost when we're looking at products?
CBD Quality
In general? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's not always 100% the case, because really, there isn't really a set pricing mechanism in our industry. As I mentioned earlier, it's a little bit of a wild wild west. And CBD is a consumer product good just like any consumer product goods. So things like packaging, advertising, marketing, all that affect the pricing. So it's not always the case, that price means better quality. But you have to research the product you’re giving to your dog. Take the time to do that. I know it's not easy. I know it takes time. I know it requires science. But it's going to make a difference in the life of your dog. In the quality of life for your dog, which in essence is going to make a difference in the quality of life for you and the quality of life for your family. So take the time to research it. Higher price doesn't always mean higher quality, but it's a place to start.
Great advice. And I know, the cheaper options, you know, those are the ones that can potentially have more toxic substances, like the pesticides, the herbicides, heavy metals. So as you said, you really have to do your homework when you're looking at these different brands. Because again, this is an unregulated industry.
Yeah, it's actually you know, it's more expensive for us to go through the USDA organic certification process,. It's more expensive for us to extract CBDA as opposed to just CBD. It's more expensive for us to use full spectrum extracts than it would be an isolate. So it's clearly more expensive to develop a high quality product. So it's important to understand that.
Well, Alex, that brings us to Genies Therapeutics. How does your product differ from all of those others in the market? What made you decide we are going to do things differently?
The Genie’s Therapeutics Difference
Research science, and I couldn't find we couldn't find a product that met all our needs. Again, most of the companies in the CBD industry are in it for the right reasons. They want to improve the quality of life for dogs. But I couldn't find a product that really met our needs. With a long chain triglycerides, LCT carrier oil, and really CBD, CBDA and USDA organic certification. I couldn't find out that out there. So that really was what makes us different. So often you see with products that do have CBD or other have cannabinoids in it, they'll say something, what's on the bottle. But it's really hard to distinguish what. I couldn't even understand there's products out there that are excellent products that have great efficacy, but you have no idea what's in the bottle. And that bothered me. How is a pet parent supposed to understand how are they supposed to pick the right product. So that got me fired up. That got us excited about putting a product that people can understand what's exactly inside. And the other thing is we use, we use CBD, we use CBDA and we use CBG in our hemp signature blend. And what's interesting there is often when you see a product of multiple cannabinoids, such as ours, they'll use one full spectrum extract and they’ll use isolates for the other cannabinoids to add in there. And that really limits that entourage effect that potential for all those cannabinoids working together. We use three full spectrum extracts and we combine them together to get that cannabinoid content and I just haven't seen anything like that available in the marketplace and I still don’t.
Yep. Well as we are wrapping up, there are other things that make you guys stand out. I know you've got a concierge program that is free, so that anybody that's interested can speak with a certified veterinary cannabis counselor. If you have any questions or concerns, I know you have an amazing advanced dosing calculator that makes things so easy to customize the dosing for your own dog, which is really cool. You have a 30 day money back guarantee. And I just have to highlight again, there are not many companies that have that USDA organic certification. So you guys stand out for so many reasons. And can you briefly tell us about Genie’s Dream?
Oh, thank you, Krista. I really appreciate that. Especially Genie’s Dream. Genie’s Dream is our 501 C 3 nonprofit arm of Genie’s Therapeutics. And we're in this to improve the quality of life for dogs. You know, as we say, our goal is to improve the quality of life for every canine, one dog at a time. And there is nothing better than this. Our nonprofit organization that we give 1% of all our revenue, from Gene’s Therapeutics to Genie’s Dream. To help all types of canine wellness causes. Specifically, one cause that we're really trying to tackle is economic euthanasia. And we've done such a great job of tackling euthanasia in shelters in the last 20-25 years, we've lowered the incidence rate. But at that same time, the incidence rates of economic euthanasia, which is when you have to euthanize your pet, because you can't potentially afford the veterinary costs needed to improve the health of your pet. That has gone up 10-15% every year. And really, I don't see any, I don't see that stopping anytime in the future. That's a really important issue. And we want to tackle that. So we're not just in this for the money. We're not just in this just to sell a product, we really do want to improve the quality of life for dogs. And Genie’s Dream gives us an opportunity to do that, and really look forward as Genie’s Therapeutics expands. And as we grow, we really look forward to making Genie’s Dream a big deal, and putting more resources in there and tackling other causes. We also have a first responders program, which is, but there's so many. During this time, right now, during the last couple of years especially, first responders have been under so much stress, and they've been away from home, and this transfers over to their dogs. Their dogs become stressed. So we have a first responders program where we help them, we provide them our hemp signature blend, and we help guide them through the process of how to dose their dog and how to pay attention for therapeutic benefits. So we are in this for the right reasons. We want to make dog's lives better, we want to make humans lives better, and Genies Dream gives us an opportunity to do that.
Wow, thank you for giving back. That's amazing. And hopefully our listeners have that we've piqued their interest that this is a special and standalone product.
Offer
And Alex and his team are going to make an amazing offer to our listeners. They're offering free shipping, which is a savings of just under $10 right there. So go to genies therapeutics.com. And that link, and all of the links on how to get to genies is going to be in the show notes. Go to https://www.geniestherapeutics.com/ and use the coupon code WOL at checkout for your free shipping. And I highly encourage you to try out this amazing product. So Alex, I just wanted to thank you for being on the show and sharing this information. I know that we have to have you on again, because as we mentioned, the science is constantly changing. So I just want to thank you for your passion and love for wanting to do better for our dogs.
Social Media URLs or Tags
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/geniestherapeutics/
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/geniestherapeutics
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/company/geniestherapeutics
website URL - https://geniestherapeutics.com
Oh, thank you so much, Krista. That means so much to me. And I want to thank you for all the attention that you bring to canine wellness causes and you have over the last couple years and we pay attention. You do excellent podcasts and thank you so much for bringing these important issues to light.
Well, we appreciate you. Thank you, Alex.
Bye bye. Thank you.
Thanks again to our friends at System Saver for sponsoring this month’s episodes . Check out this fantastic all-natural formula by going to http://caninesystemsaver.com/ and be sure to use the code WOL10 for 10% off!
Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time.
Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode?