There’s a Mushroom for That!

Hello there this is Krista with Episode # 175 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Have you checked out all the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend? These are products that I've researched and I've tried that I know, like and trust. Products that will help your dog to thrive. So just go to WagOutLoud.com and check out the trusted brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life. And don't forget to also check out the resources page as well, because it's filled with some very important info for you and your dog.

Here are some interesting stats. The folks at the Dog Aging Project found that odds of Canine Cognitive Dysfunction, also known as CCD increased 52% with each additional year of age. However, among dogs of the same age, those that were not active were 6.47 times more likely to suffer from CCD, compared to those that were very active. A trend seen in humans as well.

Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode.

Dr Rob Silver graduated from Colorado State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine in 1982, and began his practice of holistic medicine shortly thereafter. Dr Silver was a pioneer in the use of ozone, home prepared diets, acupuncture and Chinese herbs, and the use of nutraceuticals like turmeric, cannabis, CBD and medicinal mushrooms. Dr Silver is currently designing a full range of mushroom products for many of the conditions pets can suffer from, and for wellness for Real Mushrooms as their Chief Veterinary Officer.  Dr Silver has just completed his second book: The Healthy Pet Handbook: A Guide to the Use of Cannabis, CBD and mushrooms for Dogs Cats and Horses. Publication date pending.

Hello, dog lovers, we so appreciate you listening in as I chat with Dr. Rob Silver. And we are talking about There's a Mushroom for That. So Dr. Rob, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself, and share how you started using medicinal mushrooms in your holistic veterinary practice.

Absolutely, Krista. Thank you so much for inviting me today so I can share some of my successes with your listeners. So I'm a I'm kind of an old timer. I graduated from Colorado State University's College of Veterinary Medicine in 1982. And at the time, I thought I knew everything I needed to know to to do battle with all these awful diseases that our pets get. After a couple of years, I got frustrated with some of the chronic diseases, things like diabetes, or Cushings and cancer, you know, it's just were not really very well addressed by the stuff I learned in school. So I started reaching out to learn other things. And in the process, I learned about diet, nutrition and offered home, you know, home cooked meal recipes to my clients. I explored acupuncture, Chinese herbal, Western herbal medicine, used some nutraceuticals and and really was very comfortable with being able to help my patients so much better. So as I was trying to address cancer in my patients, I started using a mushroom for that. And that was many, many years ago, and I actually had to get the dried reishi mushroom and I had to fix it up myself the way we have to boil it in hot water to extract all the goodies that it contains. And I did see what I would say were good results. Did I cure cancer, No, but I saw quite a bit of benefit in terms of quality of life, and my patients living much longer than the oncologist had predicted. So that's really what got me started with this. And over the years, I've you know, I practice for 30-35 years. I retired from practice to help pet parents with their pets. And so as a result, I've written books, I write articles, I speak nationally on the topic, you know, participate in these kinds of events, to spread the word that there is a mushroom for that. You know, be it cancer, you know, be it anxiety, you know, be it energy and performance being you know, chronic GI problems. There's so many different issues that our pets have that mushrooms can help and there are specific questions that have specific abilities to help with certain conditions.

Well, that leads me right into my next question. You are perfect. Dr. Rob, since our focus is on dogs on this show, what would you say are the power mushrooms that bring the most benefits to our dogs?

Power Mushrooms for Dogs

Well, I really think that any mushroom that has medicinal properties, which is everyone, even the little white button mushrooms that we eat for dinner, have medicinal properties. But in general, I would say that I look at reishi, the Ganoderma mushroom as having you know, quite a few properties, I wouldn't I really couldn't, I couldn't pick one actually, because each one has such unique abilities. You know, I like the reishi, personally, because it kind of settles my energy, and it helps me feel better. In general, I'm getting older, with some arthritic problems, and it's very anti inflammatory helps me with all of that. But really, you know, it could just as easily be Chaga, which technically is not a mushroom. Chaga is actually mycelium growing into the birch tree. Chaga has a wide range of applications, we think of it for cancer, but it's great for GI and also can work with allergies, because it has anti histaminic properties. Might talk about Lion's Mane for dogs, for those poor dogs that are the older dogs that have a little bit of cognitive issues, or for their parents, you might have some memory issues, you know, the lion's mane can be very helpful. And of course, our you know, Turkey Tail, you know, is dominant really, when we think about cancer, historically, for hundreds of years, Turkey Tail has been what the practitioners have selected to help treat their patients for cancer, because it has so many strong beta glucans in it. So I'm really hard pressed to select one specific mushroom. I love Shiitake maybe Shiitake which is such a wonderful edible mushroom, you know, and has great properties in terms of in terms of helping with fat metabolism in the body with immune system modulation, you know, I’m hard put, to name a single mushroom to answer your question, Krista.

Because there's so many good ones.

I know.

If they've been around for so long, hundreds of years., why does it seem that these mushrooms are just coming onto the scene when it comes to Canine health? That it's more recent?

Why Mushrooms Now?

Well, I think that a lot of it has to do with the evolution of our relationship with our pets, you know, no longer are our pets. You know, I mean, certainly we have many pets that are working animals, but the companionship that our pets offer, they become four legged family members for sure. And mushrooms have been a part of the human tradition for hundreds of years. So to me, it's logical that as we're looking around the world, to see what natural substances can help benefit our pets, that we would naturally gravitate towards the kingdom of fungi and to mushrooms in general. And I think that's one of the main reasons and then another reason is, as companies have been developing products that make it easy for humans to to take the mushrooms instead of having to take the dried mushroom and boil it, you know, boil it down to like a soup, you know, they're offering them as capsules and powders and, you know, and even for pets, now we've got them in soft chews, you know, so I think the human company, the companies that were making it for humans, recognize this relationship that people have with their pets, and see it as an opportunity to help the pets as well as to expand their businesses. So I think that is my explanation for why it's only recently. But boy the speed with which, the you know, the pet parents are adopting mushrooms for, you know, to help their pets be well or to help manage chronic problems is is amazing. It's it's really the fastest growing industry in the dietary supplement industry in general, statistically.

Really? So that surpasses CBD?

Is CBD or are Mushrooms a Bigger Industry?

You know, in terms of the cost of the product, CBD is more expensive. So if you look at it in terms of dollar figures, no, I think CBD is, you know, a much more lucrative industry so to speak. But I think, you know, in terms of the applications, you know, mushrooms have no controlled substance issues with them, there's no well there's no real stigma placed on mushrooms the way it's placed on marijuana and THC. And marijuana and THC. Although certainly when used properly can be very beneficial. Most often is not used properly and drives dogs to the ER so you know, mushrooms are safe. And mushrooms are not controlled substances, except for psilocybin, but we're starting to expand our our imagination around the the applications for psilocybin as well and research is supporting it so and we're seeing legalization so I think it's really a number of different factors, you know, that has contributed to the rise in the mushroom industry. And I really do think that it surpasses the CBD industry. I was very involved in, you know, in introducing CBD to pet parents to veterinarians back in 2015 when it started to get a little more legal. And I switched to working with mushrooms just because it is I think the next best thing. I even had a slideshow, I’d show to vest where I would talk about mushrooms, I'd say the next best thing after cannabis because it really I don't know if it's the next best thing but it is every bit as good if not better in terms of helping our pets.

Right and can even be used in conjunction with CBD.

Mushrooms Together with CBD

Well, absolutely. In fact, I've been working on developing protocols that involve blending the use of mushrooms with the use of CBD. There's good studies now show CBD can help with allergic patients. There's good studies that show that Reishi, the Ganoderma mushroom and Chaga both have antihistaminic properties in them much like our and much like our Benadryl, but without all the downsides. So yeah, a lion's mane, you know, for calming and settling, you put Lion's Mane together with some CBD and it's a very calming experience. So yeah, I think to work together synergistically and, and actually mate with some of the main… I don't want to get too technical, but they are involved with some of the same membrane receptor systems. So yeah, no, it's it's fascinating.

That’s awesome. Well, Dr. Rob, you mentioned before, that we even have chews available with mushroom, in your opinion, do tinctures in liquid form, powders or chews, do they all have the same bioavailability?

What Form of Mushroom Products are Best?

in my opinion, it’s not really my opinion, based on what I've learned from reading the studies. In order to extract the beneficial beta glucans from the mushrooms, you know, we have to use the hot water extraction process. But if the the mushrooms and the beta glucans themselves, tend to not be as water soluble as we would like them to be for a liquid extract. So we do, there are several different types of active ingredients in mushrooms, and some of them are water soluble, and some of them are fat soluble. So it's hard to put them both together in the same liquid format where it is easier to have them in the same solid format. So generally tinctures that could be if they're alcoholic tinctures. Not ethanol, so not for alcoholics. But they have alchohol in them. Let me just correct that. If they're if they're based in alcohol, then they probably have the fat soluble terpenes and tri terpenes, which are so powerful in our mushrooms, and they're very good. But they don't have beta glucans, which in the whole mushroom, we get both of them. If it's a if it's a powder, it is probably going to have the beta glucans. But the fat soluble components can also be put in there as well. So I so it also depends on what you want, you know, if maybe you're looking for the activities that tri terpenes have maybe been a tincture using alcohol or it's in vegetable glycerin could very well be effective for what you're using it for. But I think in general, we want more of a broad spectrum of activity with all of the active ingredients in there. And so that's why I feel that the best form would be in a powder that could be put in a capsule, it could be tapped in put in tablets could be put into a soft chew. Those are all formats, I think are much more compatible with providing the full potency of the full mushroom.

Okay, well thank you for that.

I hope I'm not getting too technical.

No, we love to geek out on this show. This is perfect.

Okay, then you came to the right place.

We appreciate it. Well, Dr. Rob geek, not all mushrooms are created equal. So when we're buying medicinal mushroom products for our dogs, what should we be looking for?

When Shopping for Mushroom Products

Well, right now in the production of products that are labeled as containing mushrooms there are there's really two types of products that we see in the marketplace. And many of these are products that are very familiar I'm sure with your listeners, and it has to do with how they're cultivating the mushrooms. And in the cultivation of mushrooms we first grow that mycelium on grain. We call that grain spawn. And once the mycelium has grown through the grain we take that mycelium grain and we put it on the special substrate that mushrooms grow on some mushrooms grow on dead or dying wood, some mushrooms grow in compost or leaf litter or manure. So once you put the mycelium grain on that appropriate substrate, the mycelium grows through substrate and when environmental conditions are right, it produces the mushroom and when we analyze the mushroom for beta glucan, which is really the secret sauce in most mushrooms, we find it to be 25 to 50%. But there are some production methods in which they take the grain spawn. And they that's it, they dry it, and they powder it. So it's primarily 50 to 60% carbohydrates from grain. And when we measure the Beta Glucan content of these types of products, the beta glucans are often only 20% or less than what we find in the real mushrooms. So we call these mycelium on grain products and some companies promote them. They they believe that the mycelium on grain is a very, very potent medicinal product. But I haven't seen the studies that really support that. And when we look at the levels of the active ingredients in the mycelium on grain, they're so low, you would have to take an awful lot of it to get a comparable amount from a small, much smaller comparable amount of actives from a much smaller amount of the mushroom itself. This is why the company that I'm with calls itself Real Mushrooms because that's what we sell real mushrooms. Some of the companies that sell the the mycelium on grain, call it mushroom, and I don't like that that's not that's not that's not transparent. That's and many pet parents don't want to feed their pets, grains, you know, and especially carbohydrates, cancer patients, we don't want to feed them much in the way of carbohydrates because carbohydrates feed the cancer. So I'm working right now within the industry to try to get some standards for labeling language so that it can be clear to the consumer. If the consumer feels and believes that the mycelium on grain is what they want for their pets. That's great. They should have that labeled on the product. So they can select that and give that to their pet. On the other hand, if a pet parent wants to give the higher potency mushrooms that they need to know that if it says mushroom on the label, it's a mushroom, it's not mycelium on grain. So that's my whole. And that's actually something that has less to do with real mushrooms and more to do with my desire to protect the consumer. You know, which is a very you know, as you know, I've been I've been a vet for over forty years. I've retired from practice, but I feel like I'm still that my work. My mission still is to protect the pets and to protect their and to educate their parents to help the pets live long and healthy lives. And so this is one of my missions is to get that information out.

Thank you for all you do. We appreciate it. Hey, Dr. Rob, we are going to take a quick commercial break and we will be right back so hold tight.

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And we're back everybody with Dr. Rob Silver and we are talking about there's a mushroom for that. And Dr. Rob, I love how you just broke down the differences in the products that are available to us to buy for our dogs. So why don't we now talk? You mentioned in the beginning that each mushroom, they might have similar active ingredients but they each address different issues that our dogs are facing. So for the usual that, you know most of our dogs have allergies or GI issues or we mentioned cancer. Can you just break down maybe some of your favorite mushrooms and what they would be good for addressing in our dogs?

Which Mushrooms and for What?

Yes, I'd love to do that. Thank you. And I'll start with the mushroom of immortality, the reishi mushroom, and I mentioned it multiple times, because it really is my favorite mushroom. And it has been probably one of the more recognized mushrooms for centuries and centuries, you know, in ancient China, the Chinese would bring would find these huge specimens of the mushroom, and they would bring it as an offering to the Emperor because it's an honor to the, to the person to to give that as a gift to the Emperor and with the thought was conveyed Long life to the Emperor and Reishi has really hundreds of molecules that are active in it, it has these Beta Glucan molecules that are very specific for improving the immune system. It has these tri terpenes, which are these volatile molecules, a terpene is something like if you squeeze a lemon and you smell that lemon smell, that's a terpene, that's limonene. Well, the terpenes in mushrooms are much larger, not so volatile, as in lemons, but they have very strong effects on the immune system and on the body as a whole. Reishi is known as a meditation aid for Zen masters, because it has a calming effect. Reishi has an antihistiminic effect. It has all those beta glucans and all this other molecules in it, which improve immune system function. So that's Reishi. The only downside to Reishi is because it's so potent. It's a very bitter tasting mushroom, I have to take it, I'm taking the powder in my espresso, because it matches that bitterness. So it does come in capsules. And when I formulate into soft chews, it's always a challenge to try to mask that taste. So there doesn't because you want whatever you like stuff to specially need to be palatable. So I love Reishi .After reishi, I would say the next mushroom I would talk about is Turkey Tail . Turkey tail’s gotten everybody's attention, because of a couple of studies with dogs and hemangiosarcoma. Over the centuries Turkey Tail has been the choice that humans use for their own cancer because Because Turkey Tail has the highest Beta Glucan content of any mushroom at all. Plus it has 17 different types of beta glucan in it. So that's part of why it has that potency. Plus it has those triterpenes, which also have anti cancer properties as well. So I think of Turkey Tail for cancer, and I think of it for infections. I took a lot of Turkey Tail during the pandemic, and I was able to escape getting that disease up until, you know, just a couple of months ago. Oh, so yeah, but it's you know, it was very it was like transient and after 24 hours, it's gone. After Turkey Tail, I would say Lion's Mane. now lion's mane is the most popular mushroom in America today. Because it helps with it helps with memory. Oh, yeah, that's it. And also because it helps with memory, and it helps with stress helps with some dementia as well. We think that it has a good application for senior dogs who are a little fuzzy in their thinking. The vets call it canine cognitive disorder, Lion's Mane can work can appears to work really well for that. We need, we need to get some studies going to support that. I'm currently looking talking with some behaviorists about putting something together in that regard. So Lion's Mane traditionally was used for GI complaints, primarily upper GI complaints and GI cancer, you know, so those are some things to think about with Lion's Mane plus, it's a tasty, edible mushroom, if you can get the fresh lion's mane and cut it into steaks, it's just amazing. As far as taste, I really love it. So also, the taste of mushrooms, I think really speaks to the ability to give it to the pets. And of all the mushrooms there's only two that I think are so tasteless or bland tasting that I'm very comfortable saying that almost any cat would take them mixed in with their food. Lion's Mane is one and then the next mushroom I want to get to is called cordyceps and that's the other and in many regards cordyceps is really the ideal mushroom for cats one because they'll probably eat it. Cordyceps is in the family of mushrooms that is related to truffles and morels, so it's very tasty. I think it tastes a bit like like toast actually. And one of the neat superpowers to Cordyceps is that it supports the kidneys and it supports the lungs. So for me it's the ideal mushroom to give to a cat for wellness and certainly if you if you missed the boat starting early with it and your cat comes down with chronic kidney disease, as 85% of all animals who have chronic kidney disease are cats so they are very likely to get it you can probably support their kidneys because studies show that It does support kidney function well enough that perhaps we can avoid that disease or at least postpone until much, much later in life. So Cordyceps also has something special in it called Cordycepin, and Cordycepin is an inhibitor, I could nerd out a little bit. So, Cordycepin, inhibits a receptor in the body called the adenosine receptor, that is the same receptor that caffeine inhibits, in order to create more ATP, like molecules that create energy in the body. So Cordyceps is much like coffee in terms of creating energy, but it's like all mushrooms, it also has a calming effect on the mind. So it gives you some energy but without the jitters much in the same way that green tea could do that as well. So I'm very, I take myself I think reishi, cordyceps, and lion's mane. So yeah, they're my three favorites. I took Turkey Tail for the for the viral stuff, but there's so many other great mushrooms Chaga, which not a mushroom. It's mycelium growing in the birch tree. But Chaga also traditionally was used for its ability to support the GI system. And chaga grows into the birch tree. So it extracts this molecule from the birch bark called betulinic acid which is a terpene that also has the antihistaminic properties. It has some calming properties that has some anti inflammatory property. So Chaga is great. I know I was talking to Karen Becker. She likes to put chaga in her bathwater. I mean, there's so many applications of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, the Nobel Prize literature winner when he was imprisoned in the Russian gulag, contracted cancer. He treated it with Chaga and then wrote about it in his book, Cancer Ward. So and then there's shiitake. God, who doesn't love shiitake, you know, I cook with it every night. But shiitake has actually more bioactive molecules and is more studied than almost any other mushroom there is. And it has anti cholesterol properties. But you know, dogs don't have problems with cholesterol, but they do have problems with with excessive fat and triglycerides in their blood, it can help with that. It has huge benefits. As far as the immune system, there's probably four or five commercial products that have been extracted from shiitake in Asia that are used for cancer. So and then maitake another great mushroom, as you can find it growing wild. It's supposedly the most prized edible mushroom there is. maitake has great anti cancer properties, because its beta glucans are branched much more than other beta glucans, which gives them more anti cancer value in terms of in terms of the killing of the cancer cells and stimulating the immune system to kill the cancer cells as well. Tremella is a new one. Most people probably haven't heard of it. It's called the snow fungus. And it's a prized edible in Asia. But tremella has a Hyaluronic acid like molecule in it. So many people are using it for their complexion for their skin for dry skin. It can help with joints as well, you know, so, temella also has some some benefits from meditation. I forgot to mention that lion's mane also has been shown to improve myelination. And so there's some diseases of the dog like degenerative myelopathy, which are demelanization diseases, and there's some evidence that it may be helpful for that. Likewise, Lion's Mane combined with tremella can be a very powerful duo for nervous system issues. I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two, but…

They're all amazing in their own way.

Yeah, they are. I mean, that's why that's why I liked that phrase. There's a mushroom for that, you know, because because they do have so many different applications. And yet they have so many similar applications. You could use any mushroom, I think, to treat cancer, if you dose it high enough. And I think that's might be the next question is how do you figure out how much to give?

Well, we are about to run out of time. But if you have some thoughts on that, yeah, what is the dosing?

Dosing

Well, there we don't, we don't really have any literature that can help guide us. In dosing animals. We have some human literature where we just use the weight of the mushroom itself. There's how many grams that you take daily, but one of the things I'm liking working with Real Mushrooms is all of their mushroom products are standardized to their Beta Glucan content. So I developed a way of dosing based on the amount of beta glucan in a given mushroom, so it applies to all the mushrooms. So we have a lot of literature and I invite your listeners to to check out the website and look we're very strong in education because there is so much still to teach and learn about mushrooms.

Absolutely. Well, you are the Chief Veterinary Officer of Real Mushrooms. I am a huge fan, I take them myself and give them to my dog. So anybody that wants to check out RealMushrooms.com I am an affiliate because I believe in the products and take them myself as I mentioned. So I offer a 10% discount with the code WOL. So I will put all of this in the show notes. And as we're wrapping up, Dr. Rob, I know that you also own Well Pet Dispensary. What is that all about?

Well, I started the Well Pet Dispensary about nine years ago. And on it I as I retired from practice, I still felt the need to give back to the pet to pet parents and to pets. And so I wanted to offer a website where I could offer many of the same products that I used in practice to help address certain serious diseases. I focus on diseases like cancer and chronic bowel diseases and neurologic diseases primarily in terms of the products I have. So I use the Well Pet Dispensary as a platform to sell my own branded CBD CBG tincture, and my soft chews as well. I also sell Real Mushrooms there. But I bet if you're looking for Real Mushrooms, I suggest you go through Krista because she's she's such a strong supporter of Well Pet Dispensary. I also have a blog site called Nurse Your Pet, which I share with a equine holistic vet, and a board certified canine rehab practitioner. So those are, you know, just just trying to help the pet parents out there. Create long and healthy and happy lives together with their four legged family members.

And we so appreciate that. Well as we are about to sign off. Dr. Rob, you know, we just mentioned the Well Pet Dispensary. And he is giving our listeners a huge opportunity to try out these amazing products. Use Discount Code wagoutloud25 at WellPetDispensary.com. That is amazing. I will also put the Nurse Your Pet information in the show notes as well. So Dr. Rob, we are about to sign off. Do you have any closing words of wisdom for us?

Social Media URLs or Tags

         Instagram: @docrobsilver

         Facebook: @docrobsilver

         LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-robert-j-silver/

Well, just love your pets. Yes, I think that's probably it right there. Love your pets and do good by them and learn from them because they have so much to teach us.

Well, you have taught us a lot as well. So Dr. Rob, thank you for being on. And thank you for educating pet parents on how to help their pets live a longer, happy, healthier life. So I appreciate you being here today.

I appreciate being here to thank you so much for giving me this opportunity, Krista.

I want to again thank the team at Green and Experience for not only being our monthly sponsor, but for also creating the amazing plant-based fetch ball, a safe and natural toy that I feel good about giving to my dog Winston.  Check out their online store by going to Etsy.com and put GreenandExperience in the search bar. You can also find the direct link in the show notes. Choose from a set of two or three fetch balls and save by using the code WOL15 at checkout for a 15% discount. Also, if you purchase two or more fetch balls and yours is one of the first 100 orders, you will also receive a FREE encapsulated dog tag valued at $15.

Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time.

Hey Winston was that another tail wagging episode?

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