Keeping Dog Poop in the Loop

Hello everyone this is Krista with Episode #177 on the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. Hey, have you checked out all the amazing trusted brands that I highly recommend? These are products that I've researched. And I've tried that I know like and trust, and these are products that will help your dog to thrive. Just go to WagOutLoud.com and check out the Trusted Brands section. And I've negotiated discounts for most of the products, so why not see what can make a difference in your dog's life? And don't forget to also check out the resources page as well, because it's filled with some very important info for both you and your dog.

Since we just bought our new puppy Dutton home, there's a lot of potty training happening here in this house. Generally during the night puppies can hold it for as many hours as their age in months plus one hour. So that means that a three month old puppy should be able to hold it for approximately four hours.

Welcome to the Wag Out Loud pawdcast, where we are obsessed with bringing you helpful tips on canine health care, nutrition, and overall wellbeing. If you'd like to support the show, check out the amazing online events, products and resources that I personally recommend on the Wag Out Loud website. I'm your host, Krista and I'm super excited to be bringing you yet another tail wagging episode.

Rose Seemann is Co-founder of the Enviro Pet Waste Network and operates EnviroWagg, a program in Colorado dedicated to collecting and composting canine waste into safe, nutrient-rich, garden soil. She established EnviroWagg after her extensive investigations into the issue of pet waste disposal in North America. Rose's goal is to educate and guide pet owners in the safe and responsible up-cycling of their dogs' and cats' waste - in doing so she hopes to nudge the world toward a more sustainable future. 

Hello there dog lovers, and welcome to another educational episode of the Wag Out Loud pawdcast. And with me today is Rose Seemann, and she's here to chat about keeping dog poop in the loop. Rose, I first want to thank you for being with us today. How are you?

I'm fine. How are you? Krista?

I am good. Before we kick this off, why don't you introduce yourself and share with us how did your passion for dog waste disposal really start?

Oh, it was an odd thing. I was having lunch in a park. right near where I worked. This was maybe Oh 15 years ago, I'm retired now. And I saw people picking up all this dog poop. And I was reading a book called Natural Capitalism, which talked about the ability or how we should have the ability to recycle absolutely everything and return it back to nature, starting at the beginning, kind of like Cradle to Cradle. And something just clicked and I thought, look at these people picking up all this organic stuff. You know, I wonder if they sort it. Well, that was silly. They throw it in the trash, and it goes into the, you know, into the landfill. I thought there must be an awful lot of it. Because I'm sitting here just watching and I'm already seeing an awful lot of it go into that bin there. So I went back to the office. And I started thinking how many how much dog poop is there must be a lot. And then I started doing a little research. And the more I learned the more horrified kind of it I was because there are tons and tons and tons of it going into landfills with plastic bags. And it it also, you know, it emits methane, which is not good. And then I got more and more into it. And I realized that there's as much dog waste going into landfills every year in the United States. There's enough to fill 109 football fields with end zones 10 feet deep every year going into landfills. And I thought geez, my state, I found out the state puts in like any number of the weight of it is is kind of like several, you know, Washington Monuments. I mean, it's incredible. And it's actually kind of 12% of residential waste. Okay, you know, my research and my thinking got me into it.

Yeah. Well, to put some statistics behind what you're talking about, I read that a dog excretes between .5 - .75 pounds of waste per day. And one gram of dog waste contains about 23 million coliform bacteria, which is nearly twice the amount found in the equivalent of human waste. And in the United States, pet dogs produced 21 point 2 billion pounds of dog poop each year. That is a problem.

It's amazing because we're all worried about how many straws we throw out. Yes or how many Cigarette cigarette butts we throw out things like that coffee stirrers, even shoes and textiles. I mean, when you if you have a dog or two, you know that that's really heavy. If you collect it at home in your, you know, your garbage bag, more than certainly a lot of stuff that you throw out. It's organic, and it can be recycled.

Well, let's break this down. So many people, I think they think that if we leave dog waste, and don't even pick it up, oh, it's just gonna decompose naturally over time, and will actually serve as a natural fertilizer. Is that true Rose?

Can Dog Poop Fertilize?

Raw dog poop has all those horrible pathogens in it, if you just leave it there, and it rains, it could wash into storm sewers. And it could cause a lot of damage. I mean, they're reservoirs and lakes that are closed, that are near dog areas. So it can cause algae blooms that can kill, you know, aquatic animals. And then you can step on it. I mean, it's just not a pretty picture. And that stuff stays on your shoes, stays on kids shoes stays on dog paws and goes into your house. No, it has to be composted. It has to be processed before it's good for plants. It's just, it'll kill plants because it's too harsh.

And does this have anything to do with what they're eating? Like in the wild, let's say wolves or wild dogs? Is it the same composition? Because they eat well, natural?

Does the Dog’s Diet Make a Difference?

No. And first of all, scat for wild animals is scattered all over the place with dogs. They're all it's all in the same place concentrated. But from what I learned that the when dogs eat more grain, they produce more poop. And when they eat meat, there's not as much of it. But as far as the composition. I'm not too sure about that.

Right? Okay. So many of us use, let's say, the plastic grocery bag. And we think we're doing such a good thing because we are reusing these grocery bags for another purpose. But what about the bags that we use? And what happens in a landfill?

Good Bags and Bad Bags

Well, when you collect it in a bag, and it's probably better to reuse a bag than to actually buy a plastic bag. But when you throw those throw those in a landfill, they just sit there, nothing happens. They don't go back to the earth or anything like everything in the landfill. There's no air, and there's no sun and there's no moisture just kind of sits there. And eventually it kind of seeps the methane seeps out. Takes a long time. And of course, then you've got the plastic there. Right. So probably the best solution is to get certified compostable bags, and use those, even if it's going into a landfill, because at least you're supporting compostable bags. And eventually, if they get out, they're not going to be, you know, in the ocean or anything like that. And also, when you buy compostable bags, you're helping an industry The more people that buy compostable bags, the less expensive they're going to be eventually. So it's sort of an investment. But, you know, I would add that in Canada, there are any number of municipalities that actually compost their dog waste. With food scraps and yard waste, they just take it and compost that all or throw it into bio digesters, in which case many of them say that you need to use compostable bags or paper bags depending on their system. But in America that's so so rare.

We are behind the times Rose.

Yeah. And Australia's coming quite a bit ahead, too. I'm not quite sure what's going on in Europe. But you know, a lot of composters are just won't accept dog waste. You could mix it in with your yard waste. They say don't don't give it to us with your food scraps.

Right. Well, you already told us about how it contaminates the water. And we know that waste can transmit diseases to both animals and humans. Because, you know, some of the illnesses that I can think of are from E coli, Salmonella, Leptospira, you know, all of that bacteria that is found in dog waste. And then another thing I think of is internal parasites. If you have dogs with any type of worms, and another dog comes into contact with that waist that's left behind. That could be an issue for the other dog.

And if it gets on someone's skin as Little Rascals can penetrate skin, but if it's composted, if it's Biodigested, if it's tested, it can be fine compost to be used anywhere. It's just a matter if you know the process.

Exactly. Well, let's talk about this because as you said, this is pretty new process and idea, I think. So you started the Enviro Pet Waste Network, which is a nonprofit. Can you tell us a little bit about that organization and what you're trying to do, and then let's really get into how to compost our dog's waste.

What is the Enviro Pet Waste Network?

Sure. The Enviro Pet Waste Network is a 501 C three, nonprofit, and it's only about a year and a half old. It's mostly right now, Canada, United States and Australia. We try to bring people together to share success stories, and to talk to one another and to educate people, very important to educate them about what kind of bags to use what they can do with their own dog waste, if, in fact, their community isn't doing anything, what they can do to advocate so that their community, you know, does some sort of solution for the whole community. For instance, here in Colorado, on the Front Range EnviroWagg, which is, which is a program of the Enviro pet waste, network, compost, tons of dog waste, you know, every month, from trail heads, and from dog parks and from dog daycare centers. And that's a community effort. So it can be done. There are two places in New York City, that are really running ahead right now with this. And the Enviro Pet Waste Network, you know, does videos, it connects people. People call and say what can I do for my own dog? What can we do for the community? And, you know, we put them in touch with people who have done it, so that they have good advice on how to both compost their own, and how to, you know, advocate for community composting or bio digestion.

And what does that mean? Let's say a community wants to put this program in place this upcycling, as you call it, what does that look like is are there different stations than what we see now with just the plastic bags and, and a trash receptacle I guess you call it.

Community Programs

Each one's a little different. But one of the things that they have in common is that they have separate trash bins, and dog waste only bins usually close to one another. Sometimes there are, you know, like you've seen these bins for recyclable landfill, you know, and dog waste would be one of the options. And you'd also have to supply people with either compostable bags or paper bags or pieces of paper or some sort of scoop so they can pick it up and throw it in there. Because the worst thing you can do is mingle plastic, or paper cups, or something else in there. You know, you want to have it be strictly dog waste. And you you're going to have to have signage, probably some sort of education program to start with, where, you know, people you may be university students who are in environmentalism, or staff, explain to people that you have to use the compostable bags, and they're right here. Don't bring your own plastic bag and do this unless you bring your own compostable bag and do it. It takes quite a bit of education. And then you know, the bins are collected. And they're taken to a place where they can be recycled, mostly composting facilities, but sometimes bio digestion, which are those, you know, those huge facilities that take everything and use a different process than than composting it's kind of like a cold process. But these places all kill the germs and the microorganisms that are that are bad. There's micro organisms in everything, you know, get anything pure. And if it's pure, nothing will grow in it. But you can't get it to the point where it can be used in landscaping and even agriculture if it tests alright.

Well, Rose, I am going to stop you there because this is a perfect place to take a break and we will be right back and continue this very fascinating discussion. So hold tight everybody.

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All right, we're back with Rose Seemann. And we are talking about keeping poop in the loop. And I'm already learning so much rose. So we left off with you talking about how to compost dog waste. And I guess if we do it right in the front end, it doesn't sound like that hard of a process. Is that right? Am I missing something?

It's actually a loop, it starts with the food. And, you know, regardless of what the it's just more difficult, there's more to pick up. I'm not talking about the dog's health. I'm simply talking about the end product, which people really don't want to talk about.

Shitty subject, isn't it?

Yeah, it is. So what really happens is at the end, if they if they eat a lot of grains and things, then that's a lot to pick up. And if they don't, then there's much less to pick up. And you can you can compost your dog's waste there lots of ways to do it, or you can bury it and plant something over top of it. There are all sorts of ways to do it.

That doesn’t harm the soil?

How to Compost Your Dog’s Waste

Not if you It depends how much property you have, for instance, there are dog runs and things they did they make trenches, people throw it in the trench, cover it with about a few inches of soil, leaves and stuff. And then you put some more in you can lasagna it and then in the end, you put about eight inches of nice soil on top, and then you can plant things, the roots will eventually go down and benefit from the dog poop at the bottom. Because by then it will have become, you know, nice and composty and good enough, it's not going to kill the plants, it's going to fertilize them.

And how long would that take?

It could take years. A year or two. But if you plant small plants at the top in the eight inches, it's going to take them a heck of a long time to get down to the dog poop. There are people who put it around trees and hedges and things I just bury it in pockets, being very careful not to disturb the roots. And then there are all these plastic things like doggy dooleys and you know, things that that you can put worms into and all that. But essentially you can you can dig holes and then bury it, plant grass over it, you know, whatever. But if you don't have the property, that's not one way to do it.

Right. So what is composting? Let's say I have a backyard and I want to start composting, the waste? How would I even start? Are there things to buy?

Would you compost it with other things or by itself?

I don't know what's the best?

Well, you could do it either way. Really, if you're going to use the compost, your normal compost, if you're a gardener, you have plants that you eat, you know, you would do it separately. You’d do the dog waste separately and you'd use the dog waste then you wouldn't mix you would you know you wouldn't use a dirty shovel from the dog waste and, and mix up the other compost you'd use separate kind of shovels and separate turning implements and use the regular compost on gardens that you eat. You could use the dog waste compost, or a combination of food waste, yard waste and dog waste as long as you don't use it on vegetables and edibles. And the problem with that is if you use dog waste compost in your edible garden, and some of the fruit or vegetables falls into some exposed compost and you go to wash it you may not get it all off. That's the problem. Because the the dog waste isn't going to go into the fruit or into the vegetable through its root. What will happen is you might drop it.

And what about I think I read that there are bags and I don't know what they're made of that you can actually pick up the waste, bring it home and flush it. What are your thoughts on that?

Those are flushable and you can do that. What the enviro pet waste network suggests is that you call your water treatment power plant and ask if it's okay Okay, okay, you're probably gonna say no, right? But it's worth a try.

Okay. And Rose, I know that you sent me this really cool infographic with the seven steps on what we can do right now to move the needle in the right direction, can you go through those seven steps with us?

What Can I do?

Sure, this is from the Pet Poo Pocket Guide. And there's kind of a flowchart effect here, the book tells you what you can do, depending on how much time you have, how much property you have, how much effort you want to put into it. And the steps include composting, if you have a lot of property, well, maybe not even a lot of property I do and that ditch and it's fine. And it also, the other thing that you can do is vermicomposting. And you can do that in a container. And there are instructions on how you can do that. And you don't need a whole lot of property to do that you could do it like in your garage. And then there's Bokashi, which is using EMs, essential minerals. And then you micro organisms, it's kind of a long, involved process, but you can use Bokashi. And there are commercial systems that offer that. And you could find that it's on the internet, you can also do what's called Cold composting, which is just putting it somewhere and letting it sit and occasionally kind of throwing some soil on it. Or some soil or some leaves or sawdust, and then just kind of letting it sit. And that's kind of rotting. And that's if you don't want to do anything, and you've got a place to put it. It doesn't smell you just cover it up with some sawdust. And the other thing is flushing it, you can throw it down the toilet. There are alcohol based bags that you can use for that. But you have to be careful because if you have a big dog, you can just really have your whole flushing system be you know you'd need a plumber or something

like that.

You said that there's an Australian symbol that you should look for when choosing your compostable bags.

Yeah, Australia and Europe have a specific kind of specific symbol that says that they're compostable. They have to be accredited compostable, and there There's also something called home compostable. These are ones that compost just in a regular pile. The regular compostable can only be composted at a facility or they take a long time, you know, in your yard, you can bury it, which I talked about a little earlier. Man, that's, that's pretty much the seven of them. You can have a septic bin as you know, you just that's what the doggy dooley kind of does, or they don't really compost, they just kind of fit in there, you throw in some septic starter, and they're like a kind of a miniature septic tank, you throw in some water Septic starter, and then they kind of just trickle into, you know the soil. So you have to be really careful because if you use if you have clay soil, it doesn't work real well. Essentially, what you have to do, Krista, is you have to kind of know your circumstance, and take some of these ideas and kind of tweak them and see what works for you. Like in Colorado, we have sandy soils, so I compost in a ditch. You wouldn't do that in Massachusetts because it would flood. kind of tricky. So you just got to be patient.

Well, there's that. You know, I know that a lot of the cleaners like carpet cleaners that I use use bacteria and enzymes to break down the organic matter. Do you think that that could be an option? Is there something like that with bacteria and enzyme?

Well, it's not on the market for dogs specifically. That's what septic starter kind of does. It gets it going. And people who do composting. Oh, you know, it works really well on compost, save your old Halloween candy and throw it in there. You know, anything with sugar in it will just really make compost keyed up fast, and process very quickly. One time I threw a frozen peach pie that had gone bad into the compost heap, covered it up a minute, you know, just covered it very lightly. And it was gone almost the next day. I mean, the compost pile can fire up with sugar.

Oh, I just learned something new.

Throw your old peach pie at it.

There you go. All right. Well, as we are winding down Rose, I know that I sent this out to my followers a while ago but you have a survey. And I'd love all for everybody. Listening to fill this out. And I'm going to put this link in the show notes, because it's going to help. And it's very short, very easy. So, again, look in the show notes for that link. And Rose as we are winding down. What do you want to leave us with today?

I want to let you know that dog waste isn't like nuclear waste. It's, you know, for years and years, agencies have been horrifying people with, you know, terrible stories about what it'll do. And I think the tide is turned now. And we need to keep it out of landfills with plastic. Because there's there's as much dog waste going into landfills now, as people produced in 1959, and we had sewage systems and toilets, and to keep wrapping in plastic and throwing it in the trash is not very beneficial. So think about alternatives folks.

Yeah, and all of this is on your website?

Yes, it's http://epwn.org

https://www.facebook.com/enviropetwastenetwork

And again, that stands for Enviro Pet Waste Network. All right. Well, folks, there you have it. Just another reason on why we need to be responsible pet owners and how we can make a difference. Rose, I want to thank you for being with us today. Again, all of the information on Rose, the Network, social media handles, and that survey that I would just love everybody to fill out. that'll all be in the show notes. And let's do our part and make a difference. Rose, thank you so much for all that you do. We appreciate you being on the show today.

Thanks, Krista. And thanks for having me.

You bet.

Thanks again to our friends at System Saver for sponsoring this month's episodes. Check out this fantastic all natural formula by going to Caninesystemssaver.com And be sure to use the code wol10 For 10% off.

Thanks for listening. You'll find some helpful links in the show notes and if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. And please, please share your feedback. Visit WagOutLoud.com for great product recommendations with discounts, amazing online events and fantastic resources. That's also where to visit our Bark About It page where you can suggest topics, guests or products. Be advised that this show offers health and nutritional information and is designed for educational purposes only. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as a substitute for nor does it replace professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have any concerns or questions about your dog's health, you should always consult a veterinarian or a nutrition expert. Have a tail wagging day and we'll catch you next time.

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